topic Re: Complex Corner Challenge... Please help! in Modeling

Complex Corner Challenge... Please help!

griggadee — Tue, 09 May 2023 13:44:16 GMT

Ok folks,

Hopefully somebody can help me find a solution to this.

I have an angled corner that I am trying to create. Unfortunately, whichever way I approach drawing this, the end solution is not perfect. If I draw the walls using straight walls, then gaps are left in the wall face. If I use a polygonal wall to achieve the desired corner structure, then the 3d texture for the corner piece is out of alignment with the adjacent walls. See the 2d and 3d views for the outcomes. The first three are drawn using straight walls and the final one (on the right) is drawn using a polygonal wall for the corner piece. You can see the texture is out of alignment.

Could somebody please explain why a) using straight walls I end up with gaps in the face of the wall, or b) how I can align the 3d texture of the polygonal wall piece to match the texture of the adjacent walls? I have no idea where the 3d texture origin for the adjacent walls (and reset of the model) actually is.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Paul

Re: Complex Corner Challenge... Please help!

Lingwisyer — Tue, 20 Apr 2021 01:35:27 GMT

Can you select the walls on 2D so that everyone who sees this thread can see the reference lines?

Ling.

Re: Complex Corner Challenge... Please help!

DGSketcher — Tue, 20 Apr 2021 04:15:33 GMT

I see you have a short wall length at the internal corner, so if the corner is formed with three walls there shouldn’t be a connection problem providing the reference lines are consistent e.g. placed to the outside face. I have used complex profile columns for corners in the past, but by the looks of things That shouldn’t be necessary in this case.

If it is just the texture needs fixed then this may help...
https://help.graphisoft.com/AC/24/INT/#t=_AC24_Help%2F020_Configuration%2F020_Configuration-60.htm&rhsearch=Align%203d%20texture&rhhlterm=Align%203d%20texture&rhsyns=%20

Re: Complex Corner Challenge... Please help!

griggadee — Tue, 20 Apr 2021 11:24:35 GMT

The reference lines all meet. Please see the attached screen grab for confirmation. I switched the true line weight off for clarity. I honestly have no idea why this is happening. I have tried everything. Yes, a complex profile column works, but then I cannot have different materials internally and externally (Only top/bottom and sides). Thanks for the 3d texture alignment link, but this does not say how to align the texture to match the adjacent texture. How can I identify the 3d texture origin of an adjacent material so that I can set my new origin (for the corner piece) to that?

I have uploaded a video of me drawing the corner piece (highlighting the issue) to youtube:

Any solutions would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Paul

Re: Complex Corner Challenge... Please help!

Lingwisyer — Wed, 21 Apr 2021 01:18:39 GMT

griggadee wrote:
but then I cannot have different materials internally and externally

In the Profile Editor you can select individual edges and set their surface. This does mean that you cannot really use the Column edge override as it will override even the ones you have individually modified.

Does the same issue occur if you change to an external reference line?

Ling.

Re: Complex Corner Challenge... Please help!

Barry Kelly — Wed, 21 Apr 2021 02:58:44 GMT

I see no reason why that shouldn't work - in fact I tried and the wall trim fine.
Reference lines all on the inside or outside both work fine.

All I can think of is you have other walls in layers that have been turned off.
These can affect how the walls trim even when the layer is off.
Turn all layers on and see what you have there.

Barry.

Re: Complex Corner Challenge... Please help!

Barry Kelly — Wed, 21 Apr 2021 03:02:57 GMT

griggadee wrote:
Thanks for the 3d texture alignment link, but this does not say how to align the texture to match the adjacent texture. How can I identify the 3d texture origin of an adjacent material so that I can set my new origin (for the corner piece) to that?

You can't line up to another texture (other than by guessing), but you can line up to a known node - such as a bottom of a wall.
The trick is to make sure all the surface textures line up with the same point.
You can do this individually, or select more than one element and align them all at the same time to the same point.

Barry.

Re: Complex Corner Challenge... Please help!

griggadee — Wed, 21 Apr 2021 20:53:50 GMT

Lingwisyer wrote:

griggadee wrote:
but then I cannot have different materials internally and externally

In the Profile Editor you can select individual edges and set their surface. This does mean that you cannot really use the Column edge override as it will override even the ones you have individually modified.

Does the same issue occur if you change to an external reference line?

Ling.

Thanks Ling. I was not aware I could select individual edges and allocate specific materials to them in the profile manager. Could you point me in the direction of an explanation of how to do this please? I can't seem to figure it out!

Re: Complex Corner Challenge... Please help!

griggadee — Wed, 21 Apr 2021 21:36:15 GMT

Barry wrote:
I see no reason why that shouldn't work - in fact I tried and the wall trim fine.
Reference lines all on the inside or outside both work fine.

All I can think of is you have other walls in layers that have been turned off.
These can affect how the walls trim even when the layer is off.
Turn all layers on and see what you have there.

Barry.

Thanks Barry. All layers are turned on and there are no walls under, over or near these walls affecting them in any way. It's very strange to say the least!

In terms of reference lines, having the reference line on the inside of the wall creates the problem. Having the reference line on the outside of the wall overcomes the problem. Whilst this appears to be a good thing, this of course is not a workable solution, because the entire model, across 4-storeys, is drawn with the reference line on the inside, and therefore I would have to redraw the entire perimeter on each floor just to suit that one problematic section, which is just not practical.

I created another video showing the different results for internal and external reference lines and also discovered another piece of the puzzle. It seems that wall thickness is what is causing the issue! The proposed wall is 480mm thick. When drawn at this thickness, the corner issue appears. If I reduce the wall thickness down to 350mm, the corner appears just fine! How utterly strange! Maybe you can test drawing the wall to the dimensions shown in the print screen under and see what results you get? Here is the video:

Thanks again for all of your help chaps!

Paul

Re: Complex Corner Challenge... Please help!

griggadee — Wed, 21 Apr 2021 21:41:05 GMT

Barry wrote:

griggadee wrote:
Thanks for the 3d texture alignment link, but this does not say how to align the texture to match the adjacent texture. How can I identify the 3d texture origin of an adjacent material so that I can set my new origin (for the corner piece) to that?

You can't line up to another texture (other than by guessing), but you can line up to a known node - such as a bottom of a wall.
The trick is to make sure all the surface textures line up with the same point.
You can do this individually, or select more than one element and align them all at the same time to the same point.

Barry.

Thanks Barry. Do you happen to know if there is a default origin for projects? It's strange how all of the materials line up to the exact same default origin, yet any new complex wall profiles seem to be referenced to a totally different origin point and even resetting this texture does nothing. It's not like I even chose an origin point originally. It's just whatever was set by the programme.

Re: Complex Corner Challenge... Please help!

Barry Kelly — Thu, 22 Apr 2021 02:20:37 GMT

griggadee wrote:
Thanks Barry. Do you happen to know if there is a default origin for projects? It's strange how all of the materials line up to the exact same default origin, yet any new complex wall profiles seem to be referenced to a totally different origin point and even resetting this texture does nothing. It's not like I even chose an origin point originally. It's just whatever was set by the programme.

The default origin is your project origin.
Check you surface material settings and see if the 'Random Origin' option is ticked.
I think this will affect the texture position.

Barry.

Re: Complex Corner Challenge... Please help!

Barry Kelly — Thu, 22 Apr 2021 03:31:34 GMT

griggadee wrote:
Thanks Barry. All layers are turned on and there are no walls under, over or near these walls affecting them in any way. It's very strange to say the least!

In terms of reference lines, having the reference line on the inside of the wall creates the problem. Having the reference line on the outside of the wall overcomes the problem. Whilst this appears to be a good thing, this of course is not a workable solution, because the entire model, across 4-storeys, is drawn with the reference line on the inside, and therefore I would have to redraw the entire perimeter on each floor just to suit that one problematic section, which is just not practical.

I created another video showing the different results for internal and external reference lines and also discovered another piece of the puzzle. It seems that wall thickness is what is causing the issue! The proposed wall is 480mm thick. When drawn at this thickness, the corner issue appears. If I reduce the wall thickness down to 350mm, the corner appears just fine! How utterly strange! Maybe you can test drawing the wall to the dimensions shown in the print screen under and see what results you get? Here is the video:

I don't understand the logic applied here, but it is indeed dependent on the width of the wall.
With the ref lines on the inside and the walls 356mm wide all is fine.
Change them to 357mm and the trim breaks.

There seems to be some sort of tolerance because of the short (36mm) wall.
Make that wall longer and the trim will work again, until you make the walls wider - but this time to a larger width.

You can still use the inside perimeter to place your walls.
Then select them and use 'Modify Wall Reference Line' to swap the reference line to the other side.
Whether you have to select all of the perimeter walls or just those three at the corner I can't say.
If you select those three, it depends on how the ref lines of the other walls tough as to how those corners will trim.

Also no need to redraw the perimeter lines, you can just select it and use pet palette to offset all edges by 480mm.
Then modify all of the external wall so the ref line is on the outside and job is done.

I have always drawn my wall based on the outside perimeter of the building, as generally that is what you know and what you will draw first.

Barry.

Re: Complex Corner Challenge... Please help!

griggadee — Sun, 25 Apr 2021 13:23:03 GMT

Thanks Barry. All very helpful stuff. At least I have a few workarounds now so cheers for all of your help. Always good to get the brilliant support on this forum whenever I encounter these unexplainable peculiarities.

Re: Complex Corner Challenge... Please help!

Podolsky — Tue, 27 Apr 2021 17:09:41 GMT

Sometimes, when I have troubled with walls connections with complex form I'm using polygonal wall instead of several straight (the wall, that you can modify on plan like fill or slab). It saves a lot of time - instead of solving complicated puzzles how they are connecting.