topic Re: Freely shaped courtain wall in Modeling

Freely shaped courtain wall

Anonymous — Wed, 24 May 2023 06:51:13 GMT

I'm in need of achieving effect similar to the one shown in picture below:
http://www.wheremilan.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/fiera-milano.jpg
So far, I was doing things like that in Revit with massing tool and it really was extremely easy and simple - I'd just model my shape and click on it once to get the trick done. Archcad seems to be a whole lot different story however. I tried to use morph and shell tools but apparently there is no way to convert them into curtain walls and the curtain wall tool itself does not allow for nearly as much modifications as I require. Is there any way to achieve such result? Am I missing something obvious? Or maybe I could somehow import curtain wall geometry created in Revit?
Thank you.

Re: Freely shaped courtain wall

TMA_80 — Mon, 27 Apr 2015 09:29:16 GMT

In short, I don't think that ArchiCAD is suitable for this kind of forms... this should be imported from other software(s).

There is no panneling tool ala Revit in ArchiCAD, it will be hard to acheive.
And unfortunately the curtain wall tool, for the time being, is missing some morph editing options ( and I don't see any forthcoming developments in the near future )

Re: Freely shaped courtain wall

Steve Jepson — Tue, 28 Apr 2015 22:20:31 GMT

That can be modeled with ArchiCAD and perhaps better than with other programs, depending on what it is you are after.

The thing is, there is no such thing as Free Form in a real structure unless it's adobe or something. Components are fabricated, engineered...
Those components can of course be assembled any way you like. But even their assembly is rarely free-form. They may look free-form but they are probably precisely dimensioned and constructed.

ArchiCAD is for making construction documents, working drawing...transforming things free-form into things that can be constructed, fabricated, etc...

Not everyone will agree with me about that, that is just my own idea.

So then, if you want to actually make a set of working drawings for something like that. Yes, ArchiCAD is the best tool I know of for doing that. And it can all be done with ArchiCAD. I am not saying that it would be efficient to make this with ArchiCAD. Just that you could.

On the other hand, if all you want to do is make some pretend shapes that are not really useful for shop drawings, then there are other programs that could do that easier. However, even if that is all you want to do, ArchiCAD can make what your showing.

If your interested in either way, I could give you some tip on how to go about doing it with ArchiCAD.

Since you already have the Geometry you need, the first step is to get that geometry into ArchiCAD.

Re: Freely shaped courtain wall

Ahmed_K — Sat, 02 May 2015 22:12:15 GMT

Steve wrote:
That can be modeled with ArchiCAD and perhaps better than with other programs, depending on what it is you are after.

The thing is, there is no such thing as Free Form in a real structure unless it's adobe or something. Components are fabricated, engineered...
Those components can of course be assembled any way you like. But even their assembly is rarely free-form. They may look free-form but they are probably precisely dimensioned and constructed.

ArchiCAD is for making construction documents, working drawing...transforming things free-form into things that can be constructed, fabricated, etc...

Not everyone will agree with me about that, that is just my own idea.

So then, if you want to actually make a set of working drawings for something like that. Yes, ArchiCAD is the best tool I know of for doing that. And it can all be done with ArchiCAD. I am not saying that it would be efficient to make this with ArchiCAD. Just that you could.

On the other hand, if all you want to do is make some pretend shapes that are not really useful for shop drawings, then there are other programs that could do that easier. However, even if that is all you want to do, ArchiCAD can make what your showing.

If your interested in either way, I could give you some tip on how to go about doing it with ArchiCAD.

Since you already have the Geometry you need, the first step is to get that geometry into ArchiCAD.

Steve Jepson i totally agree with you ,there is no " free form " All Forms are modeled with logic to be built later , But users always ask the same question : How to model this stuff in archiCAD , No tutorials about this in the software's youtube channel , show us how archicad can handle these shapes please ,

Re: Freely shaped courtain wall

Steve Jepson — Tue, 05 May 2015 05:25:11 GMT

Sorry for not getting back to you sooner bouhmidage,
I lost track of the post.

It would be easier to do, than to put in words, so you will have to use your imagination.
Skipping how you would get that geometry into ArchiCAD or make it with ArchiCAD for now, and how to place the objects for now too, you would slice the geometry with paper thin roof planes (glass). These roof planes would be of a certain spacing and angle. The idea would be to then place nodes along the intersection of the roofs and the initial geometry. The nodes will be used for a verity of things, including where to place the components the structure is modeled with.

So what would you like to know first? How to model the initial geometry, how to import the geometry into ArchiCAD? Or is this enough of a description for you to imagine how to do everything?

Re: Freely shaped courtain wall

Ahmed_K — Tue, 05 May 2015 08:24:43 GMT

Thank you !! no problem at all !!
the design workflow differs from a person to another , often use mesh to create the shape , convert it to roofs , and then i start creating frames . this workflow takes a looooot of time as the frames are created by hand , one by one ( extruded from a base geometry or copied ). and the final curtain wall can't be modified ,
i would like to know if there is a faster and smarter way to handle theese shapes .

Re: Freely shaped courtain wall

Steve Jepson — Tue, 05 May 2015 14:38:54 GMT

Not so much time as you might think. Kind of like roof framing, you may only place one object and place it 100 times at once using the multiply tool, rotate copy, etc... things can be distributed along a spline that has nodes at a given distance, things like that. Also, that is only one of many techniques that might be required.
Another way to establish the node points you need would be to use the Curve Base 18 object or others to to generate the panel points you need. These can be converted to morphs and edited like that as well. For example in this image, you can see that you may want to delete a row of panels near the top, and at the bottom you may want to split them to make shorter panels. That sort of thing.

Step #1 - Who is the is the manufacture of the structural components you want to use ?

Re: Freely shaped courtain wall

Steve Jepson — Tue, 05 May 2015 16:13:32 GMT

this is an example of the Curve Base object converted to a morph so you can get the nodes you need that way. There are more ways to do a thing in ArchiCAD than can be told. Also, with out the specifics about what you want to make all I can do is offer rather general tips and techniques.

The key is in precisely defining the geometry. Sometimes it requires making sections through something at a certain angle to capture the exact profile of a curve or somethings and then using that curve with ArchiCAD tools such as the Profiler to make other parts. Parts that may only be for the purpose of generating another curve. You have to be very creative sometimes.

However, what you seem to be wanting to make is not in what I would call the Very Difficult category to make with ArchiCAD.

Also, it is difficult to advise you with out knowing if it is real construction documents your trying to make for this, or just a 3D model that is not 100% correct in every detail.

I am happy to help you out with this but I don't want to waste my time showing you how to do something you don't need to know, or that is not useful considering what your making this for.

As you know I am sure, there can be a huge gap between what gives the appearance of being constructible in a rendering and a model that is 100% anatomically correct and will be used for making the actual shop drawings or construction documents.

Re: Freely shaped courtain wall

Ahmed_K — Tue, 05 May 2015 18:41:12 GMT

Thank you for your time Steve Jepson !!
this was really helpful!
i'm an architecture student and I am preparing my thesis project so I have to take care of design and constructability too. so I'm not looking for organic or anarchic shaapes, everything i want to know is how to think inside archicad, and the steps to create the desired shape in a smart way. the tricks are diverse and unlimited according to my knowledge but i do not stop learning !! !!
Surely i'll share my archicad project after graduation

Re: Freely shaped courtain wall

Steve Jepson — Tue, 05 May 2015 19:00:14 GMT

were you able to find the manufacture of the components in the example structure?

something like this - http://www.waagner-biro.com/en

Check out this stuff - http://www.new-tone.com/en/news/models-projects-architect.html

ArchiCAD has and add-on for Rhinoceros which is how so many of these kind of structures are modeled. The add-on coverts the Rhinoceros file to .gsm for use with ArchiCAD.

Re: Freely shaped courtain wall

Ahmed_K — Tue, 05 May 2015 19:14:43 GMT

we have not decided yet, but there are small companies in my country which can + - produce components for such projects ( not too complex shapes )

Re: Freely shaped courtain wall

Steve Jepson — Tue, 05 May 2015 19:57:18 GMT

What you can do is model things as much as possible as complex profiles so you can update large groups of them with just by editing the profile.

For this reason, your initial model might be modeled with very simple objects that have a centerline and connect at a point that will not be changed when you change the complex profile. Something like a very small solid round rod, or a morph line. Also, you will probably want to go back and forth between simple profiles and more detailed complex profiles as your working on it.

Pick the manufacture first. This will keep you from getting too far away form what is feasible.

If you care to share your design concept I could perhaps help you select a manufacture for the components. The ArchiCAD tools you use to model them depends on what they are like.

Re: Freely shaped courtain wall

Steve Jepson — Tue, 05 May 2015 20:07:49 GMT

Re: Freely shaped courtain wall

Ahmed_K — Wed, 06 May 2015 18:18:32 GMT

another example !

Re: Freely shaped courtain wall

Steve Jepson — Wed, 06 May 2015 19:40:47 GMT

that is so cool! I wish I had projects like that to model.

Have you tried to see if this ArchiCAD object could be of any use ?

There are some .gsm objects out there that might be helpful. Also, the .gdl scripts for some of these things is not that hard to tweak.

Re: Freely shaped courtain wall

Ahmed_K — Wed, 06 May 2015 21:20:58 GMT

I played around in the past with these forms, the results were ordinary, nothing original, I need to practice more. as I discovered new things !!

Re: Freely shaped courtain wall

Steve Jepson — Wed, 06 May 2015 23:30:18 GMT

you can explode the into morphs, combine with other parts and save as something new.

Re: Freely shaped courtain wall

Anonymous — Thu, 07 May 2015 02:47:23 GMT

Search this forum for Dragon, posted by Jose Gemez. I believe that object could help you. I do not know if Jose kept developing the object or what happened to it, but in any case you can contact Jose and find out.

HTH.
Cheers.

Re: Freely shaped courtain wall

Steve Jepson — Thu, 07 May 2015 02:51:19 GMT

http://www.garquitectos.es/