topic Re: Losing geometry in Modeling

Losing geometry

Karol Argasinski — Tue, 09 May 2023 13:50:49 GMT

Dear All,

Recently I got an glitch with ARCHICAD modelling.

I created facade with beam profiles (I used those due to the fact, that facade on this building is not regular due to the pointcloud scan. it was the easiest way. You can see what is the problem on screenshots below. I use those profiles to cut shapes in walls (that is also why I didn't use profiled wall for that).

Do you know what can actually cause geometry loss?

Thanks for help in advance.
Karol

Re: Losing geometry

Karol Argasinski — Wed, 29 Jul 2020 07:23:00 GMT

Guys, anyone?

Re: Losing geometry

Barry Kelly — Wed, 29 Jul 2020 07:36:28 GMT

It is hard to say without seeing the file.
Maybe you could select just those walls and beams and save selection as a module.
Then zip the mod file and attach it here so we can have a look?

Barry.

Re: Losing geometry

LucaP — Wed, 29 Jul 2020 09:28:42 GMT

Hi,

I would recommend putting these operators (beams) on a layer with Intersection Group different from the one used for external walls (so they don't interact automatically) and then cut these mouldings with SEO.

I know that this might be heavy for the model, but I believe that complex automatic connections (in your situation wall with several beams) can get a little tricky and for such operations, where you need to 'sculpt' the façade, using SEO's gives you more control.

Especially due to the fact that the intersection between a wall and a beam is based on the collision (not the reference line intersection) it is easy to loose control.

Re: Losing geometry

Barry Kelly — Mon, 03 Aug 2020 03:52:01 GMT

Karol,
I have received your MOD file thanks.
I must say it makes my machine crawl to an almost stop.
Any change takes about a minute to compute.

It certainly seems like a Solid Element Operation problem.
With all those beams overlapping I think it just makes the geometry too complicated to calculate successfully.

If I drag the beams away from the wall it is all good.
Then I started to drag them back a few at a time.
As you can see from this image - so far so good.

But then I drag back the next group of beams and it goes bad again.

So then I tried to simplify where all the beams overlap by shortening them.
As the overlap is inside the window opening, you don't need to have them actually overlap there.
As soon as I adjusted just one (maybe the lucky one) the wall came good again.

I dragged the last group of beams back and the wall disappeared completely.
As soon as I edited a few more beams, the wall came back again.

So try to just clean up where all the beams intersect.

Barry.

Re: Losing geometry

Karol Argasinski — Mon, 03 Aug 2020 07:12:46 GMT

Thanks a lot, Barry!

I will certainly do that.
Any idea how can I optimize this workflow? This wall is like 20% of whole building

Saving beams as gdl?

best,
Karol

Re: Losing geometry

Barry Kelly — Mon, 03 Aug 2020 08:11:49 GMT

Karol wrote:
Any idea how can I optimize this workflow? This wall is like 20% of whole building

Saving beams as gdl?

I am not really sure what would be best as I have never had to deal with anything like this before.

I would certainly tidy the beams up so the intersect cleanly where they need to and remove the unnecessary intersections.

I guess you could just group them to make it easy to copy them around.
I am not sure if there would be any great benefit of saving them as an object as they would still be individual beams - just saved as an single object.
Maybe converting them to a single morph may help as this would unify them into one form.

Actually there is no need to do a Solid Element Operation as long as the beam building materials are stronger than the wall building materials (which they seem to be).
They will cut the wall automatically.
Just position them and hide the layer.

Barry.

Re: Losing geometry

LucaP — Mon, 03 Aug 2020 09:23:01 GMT

There might be also one thing which you could try. Since you're using complex profiles and the disappearing happens to the core of the wall, you could check what would happen when you change the profile element to "other" instead of "core". Perhaps automatic connections between 2 cores "gets glitchy"

Re: Losing geometry

Anonymous — Mon, 03 Aug 2020 12:03:45 GMT

Instead of using beams, you could try TrussMaker, and do just one SEO.
Hope this helps.

Re: Losing geometry

Barry Kelly — Tue, 04 Aug 2020 01:14:32 GMT

Braza wrote:
Instead of using beams, you could try TrussMaker, and do just one SEO.
Hope this helps.

Trussmaker works well but the problem is the members must be rectangular or circular as far a I recall.
It is hard to see from the images but these beams are profiled.

Barry.

Re: Losing geometry

Anonymous — Tue, 04 Aug 2020 09:12:46 GMT

Yep! You are correct Barry... Only Rectangular, L, T or Round shapes.
I don't use TrussMaker that much, but in this particular situation, if it could handle CP's would be very easy to create and edit these kind of ornaments.
Lets wait for the next TrussMaker update.
Meanwhile, the Beam tool is the best solution.

Re: Losing geometry

LucaP — Tue, 04 Aug 2020 09:19:55 GMT

Going in that direction you could use curtain wall tool with new pattern drawing ability (profiled beams as mullions) and then you could achieve only 1 SEO per wall