topic Re: Composite stack order vs draw order issue in Modeling

Composite stack order vs draw order issue

Anonymous — Tue, 09 May 2023 13:43:00 GMT

Hi !
I don't understand why if you have layers staked from top to bottom in composites it draws in reversed order ? What I mean is that intuitively top stack is exterior as it points outwards
and you start drawing like clockwise rather than counter clockwise, I understand that wall can be flipped afterwards but .. what is going on in other words ?

Re: Composite stack order vs draw order issue

Barry Kelly — Mon, 14 Jun 2021 09:20:32 GMT

I guess angles in Archicad are counter-clockwise by default, look at the angle coordinate system - 0° is to the right, 90° is vertical, 180° is to the left.
So drawing counter clock-wise would be 'the norm'.

You can start to draw your walls (i.e. first click), and if you see it is the wrong way around for the direction you want to draw, you can flip the wall before you click for the end.
No need to wait until you have placed the wall and then edit it.

P is the default keyboard shortcut to flip as you draw.
I remember it as 'P' for 'Phlip' - I guess 'F' was used for something more important.

Barry.

Re: Composite stack order vs draw order issue

Anonymous — Mon, 14 Jun 2021 09:51:41 GMT

Hi ! thanks for quick help.
drawing walls counter clockwise is funny and definitely something new in drawing industry. ))
little afraid to imagine upcoming 25th's new features but ok, I need to cover that below issue:
"You can start to draw your walls (i.e. first click), and if you see it is the wrong way around for the direction you want to draw, you can flip the wall before you click for the end."

but how do I see compound wall elements while drawing wall? to see whether or not it requires flip.
now while drawing a compound wall it renders only wall boundary.

P.S

in that situation it might be easier to just layer your wall cake in reversed order it will make it appear correct while drawing normally, but in this case window closures are switched e.g when enabling outside closure it turns inside one..

Re: Composite stack order vs draw order issue

runxel — Mon, 14 Jun 2021 10:06:13 GMT

It's just something you have to remember, that CCW is the norm.
That is taken from mathematics btw , so while you might think this is weird, it kinda makes sense from a programming perspective.

And don't build your composites the other way 'round. This will be a great headache later.

Re: Composite stack order vs draw order issue

Anonymous — Mon, 14 Jun 2021 10:19:03 GMT

I was suspecting that other softwares making mistake normally drawing clockwise shame on them.
but even if drawing CCW is really somehow approved from programming point of view, how it is tied to architects.

"And don't build your composites the other way 'round. This will be a great headache later."
so the top layer in stack should be considered as exterior right?

Re: Composite stack order vs draw order issue

Erwin Edel — Mon, 14 Jun 2021 10:54:41 GMT

Having gridlines A and 1 at the origin (0,0,0) and drafting towards the right and top seems to be pretty much industry standard here. Never felt that drafting from left to right was weird personally, but as said you can just flip the direction of the wall.

In general the top is outside and bottom inside, yes. Exception can exist, but are rarely needed.

Re: Composite stack order vs draw order issue

Barry Kelly — Mon, 14 Jun 2021 16:01:20 GMT

No need to build the composites the other way.
Look at the first image you posted and you will see the first (top) skin is the outside of the wall.

So when you place your walls you are placing the reference line.
You have the option (next to the flip button) to say that the reference line will be the outside center or inside of the wall ('C' is the keyboard shortcut).
It also has some 'Core' options but we won't worry about those.

If you have it set to 'Outside Face', you know when you are drawing the wall that the line you are placing is the outside face.
Now you just decide if you want to flip it or not so the wall is on the correct side of the reference line.
So as you start to draw your wall, you can easily tell which way it is going to end up.

Barry.