topic Re: New Opening tool & roofs in Modeling

New Opening tool & roofs

giza — Tue, 09 May 2023 14:18:37 GMT

Hi all,

In AC23 could we create opening on roofs by adding that element to say slab that already has some openings?
I tried to use the opening tool but it does not work on roofs ?! During the Masterclass 2019 presentations it was mentioned that it does work on all structural elements, walls, slabs, roofs and mesh but on the presentation there was no roof just wall slab and mesh, Looks like this feature is still not available for roofs .

Re: New Opening tool & roofs

Barry Kelly — Tue, 10 Dec 2019 01:53:02 GMT

I don't remember what was said in the 23 presentation (and i don't have the time to go back and check just at the moment).

But from the 23 reference guide...

Associated Element
In ARCHICAD 23, an Opening can be placed into a Wall, Slab, Beam or Mesh.

So for roofs you will have to cut the holes the old fashioned ways (pet palette or SEO).

Barry.

Re: New Opening tool & roofs

Lingwisyer — Tue, 10 Dec 2019 01:57:33 GMT

I wonder what prevents them from including the Roof Tool. As half the time you are just using it as a canted slab...

Re: New Opening tool & roofs

Barry Kelly — Tue, 10 Dec 2019 02:16:10 GMT

Lingwisyer wrote:
I wonder what prevents them from including the Roof Tool. As half the time you are just using it as a canted slab...

I guess it is the way the roofs are programmed.
Walls and slabs have Priority Based Connections with each other, but roofs don't, so there is obviously something different about them.
I am not really surprised that the openings don't work with a multi-plane roof because of all of the SEO connections already in place there.
But I am a little surprised they don't work with a single roof plane, as you say it is basically just a sloping slab.

But I guess it is no secret GS will be working on this, as well as openings in shells morphs and columns.
I don't think it will ever happen in curtain walls or stairs and railings due to the GDL nature of those elements.

Barry.

Re: New Opening tool & roofs

Steve Jepson — Tue, 10 Dec 2019 04:52:46 GMT

Wherever there is an MEP, Fire Sprinkler, or Structural "penetration" of some building Element, what we need in the Building Information Model, is all about model parts for the pipe sleeves, closures, escutcheons, seals….And when those things are modeled (in a BIM/Virtual Building-they should be) they could automatically create the corresponding opening. I would much rather have had a very good “Penetrations Object” than a new “Opening Tool”.
And better than that would have been to increase the functionality of Clash Detection. When an MEP (or other similarly classified object) penetrates a Wall, Floor, or Roof the program could automatically place an appropriate and editable Object at the intersect. Those Penetration Objects could have all the Annotations functionality and other data necessary for very useful Interactive Schedules.

The Penetration Objects would cut the necessary holes like SEOs. Making the hole in the model is all taken care of when the appropriate Penetration Object is placed. Sometimes that Penetration Object could just be a simple opening of course - but the main idea is that they should all be automatically placed, then edited if necessary.

Re: New Opening tool & roofs

giza — Tue, 10 Dec 2019 10:48:59 GMT

Barry wrote:
I don't remember what was said in the 23 presentation (and i don't have the time to go back and check just at the moment).

Maybe roofs were mentioned by mistake in presentation, you can hear it in ARCHICAD 23 New features Openings and Performance | Master Classes video at about minute 3.00

I had an issue where it would have been useful to have opening penetrating all structure elements including roof for some installations and i had to do it manually in roof and it kind of is weird like you have non functional tool.

It was mentioned that it will be added as a feature to support also other elements in future updates of AC.

I think that specially when the opening is in a weird angle that penetrates more elements this should work on roofs too. otherwise we have to use SEO and all sorts of workarounds.

Re: New Opening tool & roofs

giza — Tue, 10 Dec 2019 10:52:43 GMT

Steve wrote:
..When an MEP (or other similarly classified object) penetrates a Wall, Floor, or Roof the program could automatically place an appropriate and editable Object at the intersect....

This would be interesting too have, but probably developers have their ways of doing things, according to some presentations in Masterclasses it takes a lot of work to include a new feature.

Re: New Opening tool & roofs

Steve Jepson — Tue, 10 Dec 2019 21:50:39 GMT

Getting back to the original post -- New Opening tool & roofs
What is it that will be penetrating your roof element ?

Re: New Opening tool & roofs

giza — Mon, 16 Dec 2019 14:17:51 GMT

Steve wrote:
Getting back to the original post -- New Opening tool & roofs
What is it that will be penetrating your roof element ?

Actually we have a flat roof with skylights, we model separately slabs for ceiling, structure and Roof sheathing and finish layers, I wanted to 'cheat' by adding a 0 thickness no pitch roof to place a skylight object from Manufacturer so we have nice details in section and presentation on plan. So i wanted to have an opening to cut through all 4 elements at once.