topic Re: Atypical bargeboard connection in Modeling

Atypical bargeboard connection

Vojtech Slavik — Tue, 23 May 2023 12:05:14 GMT

Hi I have atypical roof construction and I would like to do bargeboard

1. White is from object
2. Blue is from beam - profile manager
3. Invisible Railing
4. Red is morph

Do you have some idea how to do it ? I tried all ways what i know but no of it is right
- object is not connecting
- beam profile also have wrong connection
- railing is have some issue to be show
- morph is curving with 3th angle what I don't want it

Re: Atypical bargeboard connection

Vojtech Slavik — Wed, 30 Jun 2021 14:20:55 GMT

Vojtech wrote:
Hi I have atypical roof construction and I would like to do bargeboard

1. White is from object
2. Blue is from beam - profile manager
3. Invisible Railing
4. Red is morph

Do you have some idea how to do it ? I tried all ways what i know but no of it is right
- object is not connecting
- beam profile also have wrong connection
- railing is have some issue to be show
- morph is curving with 3th angle what I don't want it

Re: Atypical bargeboard connection

Anonymous — Wed, 30 Jun 2021 16:52:01 GMT

Yes. This is a very very trick element to model.
I think the correct name is "Roof Fascia" or "Fascia Board"
IMO the best (and probably the one) way to model this is with Morphs.
I would do this: Draw a flat Morph with your desired profile > Rotate it and place a copy on each node of the roof > Stretch each profile if necessary > Select all the flat profiles and make an "Union" > Draw Morph lines linking each profile node until it gets solid.
Hope this helps.

Re: Atypical bargeboard connection

Kristian Bursell — Wed, 30 Jun 2021 22:31:40 GMT

We have a tool for Archicad that can do it: https://cadswift.com.au/products/Swift-Gutter-Plus.html
It is called "Swift Gutter Plus" and covers the 4 main elements of roof edges:
Fascia (bargeboard),
Gutter,
Downpipes, and
Soffit Lining.
We have spent some time on the "bargeboard" making sure that it joins correctly in all sorts of arrangements. One of our main clients is a builder of high end country homes who produces all trade packages directly from Archicad and even sends cutting list from Archicad to their factory. Therefore they required the bargeboard to mimic true life situations of custom homes for accurate cutting from their automated system.

If you have any questions please don't hesitate to ask.

Re: Atypical bargeboard connection

Lingwisyer — Thu, 01 Jul 2021 01:37:06 GMT

Vojtech wrote:
railing is have some issue to be show

If you are talking about the connections between segments, you can edit the rotation of each segment independently. You may then need to edit the connection type to get it to finish up cleanly. We did some experimenting back when the railing tool first came out which can be found here.

Ling.

Re: Atypical bargeboard connection

Vojtech Slavik — Thu, 01 Jul 2021 07:35:43 GMT

Hi, I still don't get it and read post what you link. I can make visible railing but the angle / rotation is wrong and I can't fit connection. Did I miss something ?

Lingwisyer wrote:

Vojtech wrote:
railing is have some issue to be show
If you are talking about the connections between segments, you can edit the rotation of each segment independently. You may then need to edit the connection type to get it to finish up cleanly. We did some experimenting back when the railing tool first came out which can be found here.

Ling.

Re: Atypical bargeboard connection

Vojtech Slavik — Thu, 01 Jul 2021 07:43:02 GMT

Thanks 🙂 I usually using word like : "vindskiva"(swedish) and google told me that is "Bargeboard" . Good to know

I don't understand how you mean union I have this joins
Can I rotate plane (photo 2) and continue with another direction/angel ?

Braza wrote:
Yes. This is a very very trick element to model.
I think the correct name is "Roof Fascia" or "Fascia Board"
IMO the best (and probably the one) way to model this is with Morphs.
I would do this: Draw a flat Morph with your desired profile > Rotate it and place a copy on each node of the roof > Stretch each profile if necessary > Select all the flat profiles and make an "Union" > Draw Morph lines linking each profile node until it gets solid.
Hope this helps.

Re: Atypical bargeboard connection

Vojtech Slavik — Thu, 01 Jul 2021 07:50:02 GMT

Thanks for advising this tool and looks great but it's not suitable for us we are trying to avoid any necessary plugins unfortunately.

Kristian wrote:
We have a tool for Archicad that can do it: https://cadswift.com.au/products/Swift-Gutter-Plus.html
It is called "Swift Gutter Plus" and covers the 4 main elements of roof edges:
Fascia (bargeboard),
Gutter,
Downpipes, and
Soffit Lining.
We have spent some time on the "bargeboard" making sure that it joins correctly in all sorts of arrangements. One of our main clients is a builder of high end country homes who produces all trade packages directly from Archicad and even sends cutting list from Archicad to their factory. Therefore they required the bargeboard to mimic true life situations of custom homes for accurate cutting from their automated system.

If you have any questions please don't hesitate to ask.

Re: Atypical bargeboard connection

Barry Kelly — Thu, 01 Jul 2021 09:18:13 GMT

The problem is that your roofs are different pitches.
Actually that is not the problem in itself, it is the extension to the ridge forming the apex.

On the first rise the barge face is vertical and follows the roof slope.
The top of the barge profile is perpendicular to the face of the barge (i.e. horizontal).

Have a look at the next section of the roof.
Take a section square to the roof edge.

You will see the roof slopes at an angle.
You need to measure that and incline only that rail segment so it is perpendicular to that slope.
This means the front of the barge will not be vertical.

The connection will still not be perfect as there needs to be a transition.
Play around with the connection - this is what I did.

If you want a vertical face you will have to create a second profile for that section, or split the top a bottom of the barge into two separate rails.

NOTE. Because you have edited the railing and customised 2 segments, you will need to select the connection at that corner junction only and edit it.
Changing the connection for the entire railing will not be what you want to do and may not even affect those customised segments.

If you are doing this with beams or morphs, you will have a similar problem.
And you will still have to work out transitions at the corners.
Just like they will have to do on site.

Barry.

Re: Atypical bargeboard connection

Anonymous — Thu, 01 Jul 2021 09:26:56 GMT

Hi Vojtech,

Vojtech wrote:
Thanks I usually using word like : "vindskiva"(swedish) and google told me that is "Bargeboard" . Good to know

My bad. It seems that roof "vocabulary" is very complex, and actually has an element called Bargeboard.

Vojtech wrote:
I don't understand how you mean union I have this joins
Can I rotate plane (photo 2) and continue with another direction/angel ?

I mean: You can model/draw individual profiles in key nodes and stretch them according to the desired outcome. Like this:

When you get the correct profiles in the correct position, then you select all of them > Right Click > Boolean Operation > Union. Now they are part of a single geometry. You can now stat to draw individual edges connecting the profile nodes. Perhaps this is technic is brute force compared to Kristian solution, but I think it can do the job.

Re: Atypical bargeboard connection

Vojtech Slavik — Thu, 01 Jul 2021 09:43:44 GMT

Jop I get it. Do like segments of simple morphs and then do individual joins.
Then union them.

This sound like solution for this roof.

Braza wrote:
Hi Vojtech,
Vojtech wrote:
Thanks I usually using word like : "vindskiva"(swedish) and google told me that is "Bargeboard" . Good to know
My bad. It seems that roof "vocabulary" is very complex, and actually has an element called Bargeboard.

Vojtech wrote:
I don't understand how you mean union I have this joins
Can I rotate plane (photo 2) and continue with another direction/angel ?
I mean: You can model/draw individual profiles in key nodes and stretch them according to the desired outcome. Like this:

Roof01.jpg

When you get the correct profiles in the correct position, then you select all of them > Right Click > Boolean Operation > Union. Now they are part of a single geometry. You can now stat to draw individual edges connecting the profile nodes. Perhaps this is technic is brute force compared to Kristian solution, but I think it can do the job.

Re: Atypical bargeboard connection

Vojtech Slavik — Thu, 01 Jul 2021 09:52:12 GMT

Hi Barry I really would like to get it but I have problem with it step after 3.

I know angel but where I can write this information in railing settings.
Also I have big difficulty to find join point. Because when I try to pick right join-point and when I pick it .. it's not doing anything

Is it possible to do some short video ?

Barry wrote:
The problem is that your roofs are different pitches.
Actually that is not the problem in itself, it is the extension to the ridge forming the apex.

On the first rise the barge face is vertical and follows the roof slope.
The top of the barge profile is perpendicular to the face of the barge (i.e. horizontal).

barge_1.jpg

Have a look at the next section of the roof.
Take a section square to the roof edge.

barge_2.jpg

barge_3.jpg

You will see the roof slopes at an angle.
You need to measure that and incline only that rail segment so it is perpendicular to that slope.
This means the front of the barge will not be vertical.

barge_4.jpg

The connection will still not be perfect as there needs to be a transition.
Play around with the connection - this is what I did.

barge_5.jpg

If you want a vertical face you will have to create a second profile for that section, or split the top a bottom of the barge into two separate rails.

NOTE. Because you have edited the railing and customised 2 segments, you will need to select the connection at that corner junction only and edit it.
Changing the connection for the entire railing will not be what you want to do and may not even affect those customised segments.

If you are doing this with beams or morphs, you will have a similar problem.
And you will still have to work out transitions at the corners.
Just like they will have to do on site.

Barry.

Re: Atypical bargeboard connection

Barry Kelly — Thu, 01 Jul 2021 10:10:51 GMT

This should explain.

Barry.

Re: Atypical bargeboard connection

Lingwisyer — Fri, 02 Jul 2021 03:17:34 GMT

Well, I just started building a roof in AC23 and I cannot seem to select individual railing segments... After some fiddling I figured it out. Does not sound quite relevant here, so I have posted as a continuation over here.

Ling.

Re: Atypical bargeboard connection

Vojtech Slavik — Fri, 02 Jul 2021 07:02:59 GMT

Hej Barry, do you know how can I move down this part ? It's not intuitive and interactive when I trying to change some numbers or settings I cannot see if something happening

Barry wrote:
This should explain.

barge_6.jpg

barge_7.jpg

Barry.

Re: Atypical bargeboard connection

Barry Kelly — Fri, 02 Jul 2021 07:36:58 GMT

Select the rail in 3D (not edit mode) and you will see the blue reference line.
It looks to me like it will have extra nodes at different heights, like when going up a flight of stairs.
You should be able to drag these nodes around.
Drag to an adjacent node to remove it.

Barry.

Re: Atypical bargeboard connection

Vojtech Slavik — Fri, 02 Jul 2021 08:42:40 GMT

Ohh I have only one node 😕
I give up

Anyway thanks for so many good advices 

Barry wrote:
Select the rail in 3D (not edit mode) and you will see the blue reference line.
It looks to me like it will have extra nodes at different heights, like when going up a flight of stairs.
You should be able to drag these nodes around.
Drag to an adjacent node to remove it.

Barry.

Re: Atypical bargeboard connection

Barry Kelly — Fri, 02 Jul 2021 08:53:50 GMT

Vojtech wrote:
Ohh I have only one node 😕

OK, check then the height of the rail for each segment.
I don't know if you are using a rail or a top rail, basically it is the same - you can adjust the height.

It is possible to select the rail when in EDIT mode and just drag it - which may be what you have accidentally done.

Barry.

Re: Atypical bargeboard connection

Lingwisyer — Mon, 05 Jul 2021 01:43:51 GMT

On the roof I recently started modeling, the Rail Reference Line was continuous, but the Segment Reference Line was not. I had to select the segments pertaining to the bargeboards and lower their base offset.

Ling.

Re: Atypical bargeboard connection

Hmooslechner — Mon, 05 Jul 2021 11:10:03 GMT

Some solution with morph in upload:..