topic Re: Railing in ArchiCAD 22 Elevation Display Issues in Modeling

Railing in ArchiCAD 22 Elevation Display Issues

svpribyl — Tue, 23 May 2023 16:01:22 GMT

I have an issue trying to change the pen colors of railing elements in elevation and section views.

Changing the 3d parameters of railing elements has no effect. The railing is from a favorite imported from Graphisoft's default file. I have no graphic overrides. I worked out the symbol view in plan, but not elevation.

A similar railing in the Graphisoft default file seems to work as expected: changing a pen color for element display in 3d changes the pen color in elevation. So it seems like there's a display parameter somewhere that's overriding my ability to change the pen colors. Any help would be appreciated.

Re: Railing in ArchiCAD 22 Elevation Display Issues

Barry Kelly — Thu, 21 Feb 2019 01:09:44 GMT

Changing the contour pen for each or the railing elements should work.

Check your section/elevation settings.
You may have the option ticked for "Uniform pen colour " for uncut elements.

Barry.

Re: Railing in ArchiCAD 22 Elevation Display Issues

Lingwisyer — Thu, 21 Feb 2019 01:25:25 GMT

If you have used the Edit function on any segment of the railing, those segments will no longer follow any of the changes you make in the railings overall settings. It would be nice if you could modify just a single aspect of a segment, but have everything else still follow the overall settings.

Ling.

Re: Railing in ArchiCAD 22 Elevation Display Issues

svpribyl — Fri, 22 Feb 2019 00:17:33 GMT

Barry wrote:

Check your section/elevation settings.
You may have the option ticked for "Uniform pen colour " for uncut elements.

Hi Barry,
Uniform pen color for uncut elements is not selected.

Re: Railing in ArchiCAD 22 Elevation Display Issues

Barry Kelly — Fri, 22 Feb 2019 00:58:00 GMT

svpribyl wrote:
Uniform pen color for uncut elements is not selected.

OK then.
As Ling mentioned you may have used 'EDIT' mode on your railing, so the whole railing will no longer follow the overall railing settings.
Use 'EDIT' mode and select just one of the elements and change its contour pen colour.
If that doesn't change in elevation then I would think you have a graphic override or renovation filter overriding the pen colours.

Barry.

Re: Railing in ArchiCAD 22 Elevation Display Issues

svpribyl — Fri, 22 Feb 2019 01:13:29 GMT

Lingwisyer wrote:
If you have used the Edit function on any segment of the railing, those segments will no longer follow any of the changes you make in the railings overall settings. It would be nice if you could modify just a single aspect of a segment, but have everything else still follow the overall settings.

Ling.

Hi Ling
I'm not sure I follow what you are saying. However, inspired by your comment, I deleted the rail and started over from the same favorite and the changes to the pens are working now. Needless to say, railings are highly unpredictable! Maybe mine got corrupted somehow.

Graphisoft really needs to supply more instructions on railings. Just getting a 3' high stair rail to join a 3'-6" high guardrail at a post was difficult, to say the least. It took many attempts: changing segment height first? or is it sloped rail extensions? or is it moving the post first? or is it connections? or rail ends? It turns out, I had to move the post first and then delete the rail end to get it to connect. I've watched all the tutorials. How are people learning this?

Re: Railing in ArchiCAD 22 Elevation Display Issues

Lingwisyer — Fri, 22 Feb 2019 01:34:44 GMT

When you select a stair or railing, and "Edit" dialogue box will appear on or next to the object. If you click on this, it will allow you to modify individual segments of your railing. Each segment is defined by your node placement. Modifying a segment in this way makes it independent of the overall stair / railing scheme though so any further changes must be done through the Edit function... which is annoying as sometimes the only thing you are wanting to change is the reference line offset while the rest stays the same... It would be nice if only what was changed became independent....

Ling.

Re: Railing in ArchiCAD 22 Elevation Display Issues

R Muller — Tue, 21 May 2019 17:33:00 GMT

Ling and Barry-

I am having similar problems. I try to use the railing floor plan symbol overrides on my rails (I have 6 separate rails on my model of an outdoor deck with 4 separate stairs) and the override sometimes works and sometimes doesn't.

If I understand you correctly, you are saying once the Edit function has been used, the overall railing settings no longer apply. Questions:

1. Is this true for the entire railing, or only the railing segment or other element that has been Edited?

2. If I am working on a railing that someone else created (or that I created long enough ago that I don't remember exactly how I did it) is there a way to tell if the Edit function has been used?

Re: Railing in ArchiCAD 22 Elevation Display Issues

Barry Kelly — Wed, 22 May 2019 01:23:48 GMT

R wrote:
1. Is this true for the entire railing, or only the railing segment or other element that has been Edited?

I find that the railing has a start and an end.
When you 'Edit' a particular segment or element of the railing, then the default settings will only affect what has not been modified from the start to the bit you edited.
I may be wrong about this but I have seen this behaviour.

Actually I just tried it (in 22), I edited the balusters in one segment of a 4 segment railing.
Then I selected the entire rail and deleted the balusters - all the other segments changed except the one I edited.

R wrote:
2. If I am working on a railing that someone else created (or that I created long enough ago that I don't remember exactly how I did it) is there a way to tell if the Edit function has been used?

You will see a small yellow warning triangle next to SEGMENT when any of the segments or components have been individually eddied.
Similarly there will be one next to NODE if you edit anything to do with a n individual node.

You can RESET this warning and those edited segments or nodes will reset t the default settings of the rest of the railing.

Barry.

Re: Railing in ArchiCAD 22 Elevation Display Issues

Lingwisyer — Wed, 22 May 2019 01:28:23 GMT

1. Just the segment edited, all other segments still follow the scheme

2. Within the overall railing settings, a button will appear at the bottom left of the dialogue mentioning that some segments are independent and if you would like to reset them. It does not tell you which are independent though, which also means that you cannot selectively reset them...

Ling.

Edit: Barry seems to have a habit of posting just before I do...

Re: Railing in ArchiCAD 22 Elevation Display Issues

R Muller — Thu, 23 May 2019 17:31:27 GMT

Barry and Ling-

Thank you so much for your clarifications. I probably should avoid using Edit mode unless what I am changing relates only to one segment. I will go back and watch the training videos again, as I obviously missed this the first time through.

I have more railing questions, but will post under a new topic.

Re: Railing in ArchiCAD 22 Elevation Display Issues

ryejuan — Wed, 19 Jun 2019 01:28:08 GMT

Hi Guys,

I'm also having some issues with the handrail in ArchiCAD on the part where I'm doing renovation filters even though I have set the main handrail into "exisiting" other parts of the railing shows as "new" then end up I have also tried modifying each part to be represented as "existing" but it still reverts back to "new" or some of the parts not being represented correctly. I'm not sure if I'm missing something.

Any tips or inputs greatly appreciated.
Thanks!

Re: Railing in ArchiCAD 22 Elevation Display Issues

Andreas _kerlund — Thu, 25 Jun 2020 14:42:21 GMT

Hi!

I have the same problem but in Archicad 23. I have tried everything I can think of. Drawn a new raiing, copied the old one, changed every pen, even those wich have nothing to do with the 3D appearance. No matter what I do the railing seems to be hard wired to pen 1. I changed the color of that pen in the penset to check. I have also tried graphic overrides. I have done no edit-mode editing at all. Frustrated...

Re: Railing in ArchiCAD 22 Elevation Display Issues

Anonymous — Thu, 25 Jun 2020 15:44:18 GMT

Hi Andreas,

Ok. Just to check: Did you check all Barry's and Ling's posts in this topic?
Hope that helps.

Re: Railing in ArchiCAD 22 Elevation Display Issues

Laszlo Nagy — Sat, 27 Jun 2020 21:50:08 GMT

Let me summarize all the findings of this thread for future reference:

So, under normal circumstances, the sub-elements or components of Railings (such as Handrail, Post, Balusters, etc.) can be displayed with their own Pen in 3D and Sections/Elevations. It is usually set by the "Contour Pen" setting in the "3D Representation" panel of the component GDL Object's settings.

So what may cause the View Pens of Railings to change in Sections/Elevations from their Pen set in the Settings Dialog (1., 2., and 3. below apply to other element types, 4. applies only to Railings):

1. If you go to the "Elevation Settings" Dialog, and in the "Model Display" panel, check the "Uniform Pen for Uncut Elements" checkbox, all view lines of the Railing that are not cut by the Section/Elevation will be overridden with the specified Pen. Please note that all uncut lines of all other elements will also be overridden so the change is quite visible:

2. You might have a Graphic Override active that overrides the Line Pen of the Railing. This will again affect the whole of the Railing.

3. Renovation Filters can also override the Pen of the whole Railing element. In the below example, the Railing is set to the "New" Renovation Status. and the "00 Show All Elements" Renovation Filter specifies New Elements to be overridden by a red Pen.
It is worth noting that in case an element is overridden by both Graphic Overrides and Renovation Filters, Graphic Overrides will be stronger.

4. If you go to the "Model View Options" Dialog, and in the "Railing Options" panel, set the "Railing 3D and Section/Elevation" field to "Simplified", the whole Railing again will be overridden. In this case, you may also see some parts of the Railing not generated due to the simplification of its geometry.

If all the above do not solve this issue, then it is really possible that the Railing geometry is corrupted somehow. In that case, you can try to delete the Railing and redo it.
If even redoing the Railing does not solve the problem, you may try to apply another Favorite and redo the Railing, since it may be the Favorites data that was corrupted, and applying another Favorite might fix this corruption.
If even that does not solve it, you may try to use the "Open and Repair" option when opening the file, it may fix that.
If even that does not fix it, then it may be file corruption. In that case, I would report this to your local support.

Re: Railing in ArchiCAD 22 Elevation Display Issues

Laszlo Nagy — Sun, 28 Jun 2020 17:47:44 GMT

I have played a bit more with this topic to see in what order the overrides are applied. So in order of strength, they are:

In the case of Pens:
1. MVO Settings (strongest)
2. Graphic Override
3. Renovation Filter
4. Elevation Settings

In the case of Surfaces:
1. Renovation Filter (strongest)
2. Elevation Settings ("Fill Uncut Surfaces with" field - "Uniform Pen Color" option)
3. Graphic Override
4. MVO Settings (strongest)

I am seeing inconsistencies in the case of Surfaces, sometimes MVO settings are applied to Surfaces (where they should not be). I think it happens when all 4 types of overrides are applied, and if I turn off the other three overrides, the MVO Surface override will start to be applied, which may be a bug. Plus, the order in which these overrides are applied is not the same in the case of Pens and Surfaces, which I think is inconsistent, probably also a bug.
So I will send these issues to Graphisoft.

Re: Railing in ArchiCAD 22 Elevation Display Issues

Minh Nguyen — Mon, 06 Jul 2020 08:17:08 GMT

HI Laci,

Thank you for spending the time investigating this issue! This is a very intriguing one!

I can reproduce the same issue on AC23. It looks like this is a design issue to me, or this could also be a bug!? I have forwarded the case to the development team. Once I have the answer I will let you know!

Thank you once again, and have a great day!

Best regards,
Minh

Re: Railing in ArchiCAD 22 Elevation Display Issues

Laszlo Nagy — Mon, 06 Jul 2020 09:06:11 GMT

Hi Minh,

Thanks. I think there are 2 reasons this is a bug:
1. The order is not the same in all cases for Pens and Surfaces.
2. MVO is sometimes applied for Surfaces, sometimes it is not.

So, if it is a design decision, there must be a pretty good explanation of why it is working this way.

Re: Railing in ArchiCAD 22 Elevation Display Issues

Minh Nguyen — Mon, 06 Jul 2020 12:15:13 GMT

Got it! I shared your opinion with the developers already. Hopefully we'll have an answer soon!

Cheers,
Minh

Re: Railing in ArchiCAD 22 Elevation Display Issues

Minh Nguyen — Fri, 17 Jul 2020 11:04:08 GMT

Hi Laci,

After some discussions with the developers, I found out a few things:

For displaying surface in Elevation, we have Surface color and Fill color. And here is where things get complicated.

GO rules and Renovation override include both Surface override and Fill override, whereas Elevation settings only include Fill's color override (there's also an option for Own Surface color), and MVO only includes Surface override.

According to the developers, the order of the override should be:

1. GO (strongest)
2. Renovation
3. Elevation Settings
4. MVO (weakest)

After some tests, I realized that: Fill color override is always stronger than Surface override. For example, if you deactivate Fill color override in GO rules, Renovation's Fill color override will kick in.

If we disable all Fill color override (that also include Elevation settings), the order of override for surface is:
1. GO (strongest)
2. Renovation
3. MVO (weakest)

According to this, the Pen override is faulty. It could be an implementation error in the Stair/Railing Schematic View. I have entered a defect entry for this into the system. Hopefully it will be addressed soon, to avoid further confusion!

If there is anything unclear, feel free to let me know!

Regarding the issue when MVO is sometimes applied for Surfaces, sometimes it is not, unfortunately, we could not reproduce the issue. I try to follow your suggestion, by deactivating each combination one by one, with both AC23 and AC22, unfortunately I was unable to reproduce it. Is there an exact method to reproduce this?

Thank you very much!

Best regards,
Minh