topic Re: Upgrade 7-9: best strategy? in Modeling

Upgrade 7-9: best strategy?

Anonymous — Fri, 01 Oct 2004 14:31:24 GMT

We are expecting our 9.0 upgrade to arrive any day - very excited. Also, wondering a lot about the best way to start being productive in the new work environment. We never upgraded to 8, so the whole Plotmaker workflow will be new to us, along with many other things (details, new gdl). New tools and their capabilities I expect to be the least of our concerns.

Does anyone have any suggestions for tackling the learning curve? Tutorial? RTFM (I expect this to be my prefered approach) ? Just start using it (could be hairy)?

Always eager to learn from the mistakes of others...

Re: Upgrade 7-9: best strategy?

Aaron Bourgoin — Fri, 01 Oct 2004 15:47:30 GMT

Ask your ArchiCAD rep for a copy of Project Framework (2nd ed. for 8.1). Its not a long book, but full of workflow related stuff.

See also the freebies for download on the GS web site under the products:publications tab.

Re: Upgrade 7-9: best strategy?

Jefferson — Fri, 01 Oct 2004 16:12:52 GMT

Hi Robert

I am not familiar with RFTM, but here's my 2cents. For starters put in your time with the Framework as suggested. However the real productivity, which make you feel as though you just got a LARGE raise, and I'm sure 9 is even better, comes with the implementation of well thought out template system LINKING ArchiCAD to Plotmaker...........and how to drive it efficiently.

So................I would suggest emailing, or calling the fellow who turned things around and filled in the "gaps" for me, Link Ellis, ArchiLINK. This will be some of the best money you'll spend, IMHO.

Re: Upgrade 7-9: best strategy?

Karl Ottenstein — Fri, 01 Oct 2004 17:05:36 GMT

RobertNichols wrote:
Does anyone have any suggestions for tackling the learning curve?

IMHO, jumping from 7 to 9 in an efficient way (that doesn't interupt your practice and avoids costly back-steps) is best done with the help of an experienced teacher / trainer. A number of us are available for travel (me, Link, Matthew, Dwight, among others), and of course your reseller should be a good resource as well.

Classic trade-off of time vs. money. There's the updated Project Framework (which I haven't seen) that should bring someone up to the 8.1 level of linked plns. But, other than the new step-by-step and manuals and this forum (all good resources if you have the time and inclination!), the only resources for 9 right now are the people with months of experience with 9.0: the Beta and Hatteras testers - which include the guys listed above.

Feel free to contact me or any of the other guys by PM to discuss costs for hands-on or phone/email/web support.

Karl

Re: Upgrade 7-9: best strategy?

glenn_peters — Sat, 02 Oct 2004 19:27:18 GMT

Here is a question that some may be able to provide a heads up on...

Moving pre-ArchiCAD 8 projects into AC 8/8.1 was typically discouraged and our office has therefore kept the large number of projects (dating back to AC 4.01 circa 1991) input prior to that release in ArchiCAD 7.0.

Problem is, much of our work involves returning to these older files as we do repeat work for clients (Hospitals, Care Facilities & Schools) -- we always have renovations/additions/upgrades on-going at many of these buildings.

I'm getting used to the features in AC 8.1 and with AC 9.0 on order from GSCNE (and the new G5 iMac now on the desktop) I'd love to make the move permanently into AC 9. What is the advance recommendation on importing AC 7 projects into AC 9?

Re: Upgrade 7-9: best strategy?

Anonymous — Sat, 02 Oct 2004 19:59:44 GMT

My suggestion is simple and hold for any learning task.
1. Let you self 1-2 hours per day for one week.
2. First read that what is new.. Fast read to get an idea what is new.
3. Split your exploration in parts. Walls Openings Roofs. Calculation.
4. Learn the basic staff. Never try to learn ALL the features. You will never comprehent them.

5. IF stuck. Post here. .

I learned AC on my own in about 10 days, while doing a real medium sized project. Of course i would have organized my work differently now, after 15 or more projects BUT like swimming, you should not wait to be Thorp to swim .
By the way i still have not found time to learn the lists discriptive langruage.

As for moving i guess first archiving.. then open in vers 9 so all libraries are packed with the archive (.pla)

Re: Upgrade 7-9: best strategy?

glenn_peters — Sun, 03 Oct 2004 00:37:15 GMT

The problems of importing older projects may have been primarily with ArchiCAD 8 (not 8.1?), but they were sufficient to scare most away from taking AC7 jobs into the newer version.

I recall discussions on the earlier ArchiTALK forum which discussed concerns over the libraries. Recommendations were to save a template with the usual libraries loades as a PLA, then update the library parts from the Special menu, then save again as PLA.

It was also recommended to replace all the AC7 and older library parts with the corresponding ones from the new library (lots of work).

What is the recommended procedure to bring AC7 files direct into AC9?

Re: Upgrade 7-9: best strategy?

Thomas Holm — Sun, 03 Oct 2004 10:56:43 GMT

What is the recommended procedure to bring AC7 files direct into AC9?

While I do think you get more than your money's worth by engaging one of the experienced guys, Dwight, Link, Karl et al., this subject must of course primarily be Graphisoft's responsiblity. I think they lost many a good sale because of the AC8 problems, among them me. We've stayed in AC7v3 until a few weeks ago..

Now I got AC9 last week by upgrading late (I've just used AC8.1 for a week or so) and I think I've got more than my money's worth.

However, there ARE issues. Yesterday, AC9 crashed repeatedly (bug report sent) when I tried to open an AC7 .pla. But when I tried it in AC8.1, it opened fine, only reporting that a skylight object would lose its intelligence (whatever that means). Then, 9 would open it!

I thought just saving the .pla in 7 and then opening it in 9 and checking the Convert option would be sufficent. Perhaps not. To give us the best procedure is certainly a Graphisoft responsibilty!

Re: Upgrade 7-9: best strategy?

Greg Kmethy — Mon, 04 Oct 2004 18:59:01 GMT

ArchiCAD is backward compatible so opening your old projects in newer versions of ArchiCAD shouldn’t cause any problem. However there is one rule that you have to comply with:
Always use the original library that your project was started with. Also in certain cases it is advisable not to use different versions of the ArchiCAD library parallel. Please also read related articles on ArchiGuide:

Updated Library Object Globally Unique Identifier (GUID)
http://www.graphisoft.com/support/archicad/archiguide/guid.html

Library Object file extension changes in ArchiCAD 8 and later
http://www.graphisoft.com/support/archicad/archiguide/Libpartextensionchanges.html

Working with older Libraries in ArchiCAD 8 (and later)
http://www.graphisoft.com/support/archicad/archiguide/WorkingwitholderLibraries.html

7.0 Doors/Windows placed in Composite Walls and opened in ArchiCAD 8
http://www.graphisoft.com/support/archicad/archiguide/WorkingwitholderLibraries.html

These articles were originally written for AC8 but also apply to AC9.

HTH,
Greg

Re: Upgrade 7-9: best strategy?

Anonymous — Tue, 05 Oct 2004 15:03:06 GMT

Greg wrote

Also in certain cases it is advisable not to use different versions of the ArchiCAD library parallel

What cases are those. It seems like in a best case scenario one could transition their projects to the new version using library parts from the old version and adding library parts from the new version as work proceeds. Not having parallel libraries from two different version precludes this possibility. I guess my question is, when is it OK to have libraries from two different versions loaded? Will the ability to transfer parameters between different library parts exist for non version 9 libraries?

Re: Upgrade 7-9: best strategy?

Anonymous — Wed, 06 Oct 2004 07:03:34 GMT

RobertNichols wrote:
Also, wondering a lot about the best way to start being productive in the new work environment. .

Link Ellis in the U.S sound like the man to save your firm both money and a lot of time for this procedure.
This way the firm can save many de-tours when starting to work in AC 9, get the required knowledge and specifics that works best for your type of workflow

Re: Upgrade 7-9: best strategy?

Greg Kmethy — Wed, 06 Oct 2004 13:21:12 GMT

The fundamental change in library management in AC 8 was the introduction of uniqueID's. Up to AC 7.0 objects were referenced by their name, from version 8 it's done through ID's. If you load an AC 7.0 object in 8 or above, it's ID will be {0}-{0}. This is not a problem, since AC can still identify objects by their name. However, if there is an other object with the same name, ArchiCAD might mix them up.

So the rule is simple:
If you have AC 7.0 or earlier libraries loaded, then you should manage libraries the same way you did in 7.0: make sure there are no duplicate object names.
If you have ArchiCAD 8 or 8.1 libraries loaded, you can just go ahead and load ArchiCAD 9 libraries, duplicate names will not matter.
Make sure though not to load texture pictures twice. Also make sure to load the original Add-On library.

The parameter transfer will also work with old objects. The only difference in AC-9 objects is that you have a flag to mark a parameter 'unique'. (That's the 'U' letter in the parameter list). Such parameters will not be transferred. If you want to lock a parameter like that in an AC 7.0 object, you have to re-save it in AC 9 format.

Greg

Re: Upgrade 7-9: best strategy?

Greg Kmethy — Fri, 08 Oct 2004 14:14:30 GMT

gkmethy wrote:
If you load an AC 7.0 object in 8 or above, it's ID will be {0}-{0}. This is not a problem, since AC can still identify objects by their name. However, if there is an other object with the same name, ArchiCAD might mix them up.

This is not the case anymore in ArchiCAD 9, if you do this:

-Open the ArchiCAD 7.0 file in ArchiCAD 9 with ONLY the ArchiCAD 7.0 library loaded.
- save the file
- Now you can load the ArchiCAD 9 library too
- Make sure that both libraries are loaded every time you open the file.

This way library parts withe the same name will not mix, not even if one of them comes from ArchiCAD 7.0 or earlier. The references of the old objects with GUID {0}-{0} will always point to the ArchiCAD 7.0 library.

Re: Upgrade 7-9: best strategy?

Thomas Holm — Mon, 11 Oct 2004 11:39:20 GMT

Does this mean you should NOT / need not archive (save as .pla) projects before transferring them if you want to go directly from AC7 to AC9?

Re: Upgrade 7-9: best strategy?

Greg Kmethy — Mon, 11 Oct 2004 12:21:23 GMT

It is not a must, but a good idea to save projects as PLA when transferring your project into a new version for two reasons:
- you can back up your project at the stage you transferred it with all the necessary library parts.
- you probably will not use any of the ArchiCAD 7.0 objects that you have not used so far, so it is unnecessary to load parts that you have never used, and will never use.

Keeping the loaded library as small as possible reduces loading times, especially when libraries are loaded via network.

Greg