topic Re: ARCHICAD 22 announced in Modeling

ARCHICAD 22 announced

Laszlo Nagy — Wed, 02 May 2018 16:24:49 GMT

New version has been announced, for details please go to:
http://www.graphisoft.com/archicad/

Please use this thread to talk about your impressions of the new features.

Re: ARCHICAD 22 announced

Anonymous — Thu, 03 May 2018 15:56:06 GMT

Love to see faster and smoother 2D animations. Congratulations!

any improvements in 3D speed?

does archicad mac version use macos new Metal API for faster redraw and 3d speed improvement?

I hope future archicad versions implements AMD firerender technology for GPU render acceleration in cinerender, like cinema4D last version do.

Re: ARCHICAD 22 announced

poco2013 — Fri, 04 May 2018 15:32:10 GMT

FWIW: It's difficult to evaluate any product based on promotional videos – But a few personal observations. IMNOHO only.

1. Expressions in Properties. - A long overdue ability to perform calculations. Archicad chose to implement via internal functions similar to the existing patterns within schedules. I'm sure the intent is to provide a simplified format already similar to users. It falls short, in my opinion, in that it is much too limited in features. I would have preferred that a scripting language like Python or Ruby would have been provided instead. Inevitably, users will demand more and more features which will just complicate and confuse usage. In keeping things in house, Archicad is programming features already available elsewhere. In effect, reinventing the wheel and making enhancements and maintenance more difficult. Opinion is positive but apprehensive about future improvements and support.
2. Offset Modifiers and Parametric Profiles – Great improvement – It remains to be seen, if in practice, it works as smoothly as shown in the videos which used the most simplified profile. I would have liked to have this feature extended to composites e.g. Vectorworks, which would make the feature more versatile.
3. Curtain walls – This feature has been updated to recognize the more artistic designs used in curtain walls. Unfortunately, Archicad still ignores usage of the Curtain Wall tool for things other than curtain walls i.e. framing, decks, etc.
4. Attribute Manager – Common sense consolidation and improvement.
5. IFC – Seems to be the poor relation as no video explanation given, as was the case last year. More attention to detail needed.

Re: ARCHICAD 22 announced

Podolsky — Fri, 04 May 2018 20:25:42 GMT

I've got very strange feelings about last releases of ArchiCAD. First at all - ArchiCAD 21 was (and probably still) buggy. Amount of bugs was so huge that it was really hard to use (especially in Teamwork) for first half year. I also noticed that some of operations in ArchiCAD do not use full power of computer (probably some algorithms of scheduling, maybe drawings updates - I've got latest "Killing Machine" MacPro with 32 GB RAM - and some tasks are still very slow), BIMx global illumination render still works on one core. Starting from ArchiCAD 19 more then half GDL commands "REQUEST" been cut from Parameter script - that really made GDLing is not attractive as it was before.
Talking about ArchiCAD 22 announcement - of course it's necessary to see deeply new documentation (any changes in GDL by the way?) But this is my first impression:

1. Curtain wall. Excellent improvements. I hope it's not buggy as it was in ArchiCAD 21. Very good feature for custom classes for panels. But why not the same for frames, or I missed something? I need more classes for frames then only "mullion", "transom" and "boundary".

2. Parametric Custom Profiles. Looks a little bit like Revit families settings. Maybe useful but I'm not sure I need it. Video shows example that it possible adjust levels of skins in complex wall. Question - when I quantify this wall - will schedule show automatically thickness of each skin, as if it would be simple composite wall? ArchiCAD 21 does not show skin thickness of complex profile wall and I'm not sure ArchiCAD 22 will.

3. Properties. Interesting. But actually all that already exists in GDL. Of course it's cool feature, it opens a lot of possibilities but how many users will use all these possibilities (how many users are using GDL properly)? I definitely will use this feature but maybe mostly for brick quantity. How about global review of scheduling functionality? Algorithm exists since ArchiCAD 6.5 and almost did not change. Will anything happen with Listing? Listing - stone age forgotten function, but still have excellent feature - attached property object to building element (that could for example contain different 2D drawing, that could be generated from variables). Can we merge Listing and Scheduling and made it more like Excel?

4. Updated CineRender. Stereoscopic images. Do I need it? I need that GI in BIMx would show lamps as light sources. And multi-core render. Or completely replace BIMx GI algorithms (with CineRender for example).

5. LOD for Library Parts. Great idea that I use for my own GDL library for 2 years. I have 5 levels of Details by the way. Does someone think to re-write standard ArchiCAD library completely (except of me)? Many-many elements there are old and awful. Completely new library can change look of ArchiCAD and projects made in it.

I remember the time of ArchiCAD 6.5, when Graphisoft team tried do not overload ArchiCAD with many new features and it was good - program was light, didn't have a lot of commands and functions (opposite to 3D max of that time) but very powerful. Today it seems that direction has changed. Program becoming heavier and heavier and I'm not sure I'm getting what I really need with new version.

Re: ARCHICAD 22 announced

Eduardo Rolon — Fri, 04 May 2018 22:00:19 GMT

On a lighter note.
Improvements to the CW tool include this one.
No idea why it didn't make the list?

Re: ARCHICAD 22 announced

David Maudlin — Sat, 05 May 2018 13:10:13 GMT

Podolsky wrote:
1. Curtain wall. Excellent improvements. I hope it's not buggy as it was in ArchiCAD 21. Very good feature for custom classes for panels. But why not the same for frames, or I missed something? I need more classes for frames then only "mullion", "transom" and "boundary".

I think this was addressed.

David

Re: ARCHICAD 22 announced

Steve Jepson — Sat, 05 May 2018 20:52:23 GMT

poco2013 wrote:
...
1. Expressions in Properties. - A long overdue ability to perform calculations.

What good is it to have more specific data extracted into the Interactive Schedules if we do not have the UNITS OF MEASURE that are necessary for them? The only new unit of measure for 22 is the decimeter.
We need the ability to define our own units of measure too. Boxes, Tubes, Bundles, Units, Squares, Spools, Sacks, Sheets, Rolls, Cartons... In addition to units of measure like Board Feet, Square Yards, Acres, Sections, Chains, Links, Miles...

Re: ARCHICAD 22 announced

poco2013 — Sat, 05 May 2018 21:53:45 GMT

You have me at somewhat of a disadvantage because I'm not a beta tester -- But based on the videos ---

I believe you can now mix units of measure by appending a unit label -- as in appending a mm, cm, ft, dm, etc. to the numbers.
This gets you to the units or measurement you require with the conversions taken care of for you. To display or append the final reference as in ' bags of concrete'
You would simply convert the number to a string using the 'STR' function than append the intended units of measurement to that string using the 'concat' function. e.g. "432 Bags" or 500 ft of 6" Sheathing"

Or am I Wrong??

Re: ARCHICAD 22 announced

Laszlo Nagy — Sat, 05 May 2018 22:10:11 GMT

Steve wrote:
poco2013 wrote:
...
1. Expressions in Properties. - A long overdue ability to perform calculations.
What good is it to have more specific data extracted into the Interactive Schedules if we do not have the UNITS OF MEASURE that are necessary for them? The only new unit of measure for 22 is the decimeter.
We need the ability to define our own units of measure too. Boxes, Tubes, Bundles, Units, Squares, Spools, Sacks, Sheets, Rolls, Cartons... In addition to units of measure like Board Feet, Square Yards, Acres, Sections, Chains, Links, Miles...

Steve,
I think you will be able to do these kinds of things, but differently. Instead of having the ability to define your own Units of measurement, you will have text manipulation functions. So you will be able to calculate, let us say, how many boxes, and then you will be able to create a text property that says "234 boxes". Then you will be able to Schedule that Property.
This clips shows a few examples:

https://youtu.be/6HcFlCQH00g?list=PLnXY6vLUwlWUv8rM2RYu5RQnXVlZ-xdd7

Re: ARCHICAD 22 announced

RandyC — Sun, 06 May 2018 01:08:53 GMT

I'm going to have to go back to school

Re: ARCHICAD 22 announced

fhedberg — Tue, 08 May 2018 02:52:51 GMT

Still no ability to schedule curtain walls...?

Re: ARCHICAD 22 announced

Barry Kelly — Tue, 08 May 2018 03:58:02 GMT

Sure there is.
I can't say I have tried it as I don't use curtain walls so can't vouch for exactly what you can get out of a curtain wall schedule.

Barry.

Re: ARCHICAD 22 announced

JGoode — Tue, 08 May 2018 15:50:46 GMT

Are we going to be able to utilise the Level Of Detail addition in our own objects?

Re: ARCHICAD 22 announced

Steve Jepson — Tue, 08 May 2018 21:47:00 GMT

LaszloNagy wrote:
...

Steve,
I think you will be able to do these kinds of things, but differently. ....

Yes, I think I will be able to do some of that. The part that I am concerned about is the limitation there may be due to the Calculation Units we have available for Interactive Schedules.
I would like to see an example of using Expressions for an Interactive Schedule showing quantities in Board Feet.
I can imagine how something like how many Units of SPF 2x6 Studs 104 5/8" could be reported using Expressions, but I am not sure how Expressions will be of any help in getting more dimensional Units of Measure/Calculation Units into an Interactive Schedule.
Perhaps someone can tell us if we will be able make an Interactive Schedule show quantities in Board Feet or not. If expressions can make that kind of thing possible, then I am all for it and will take the time to figure it out. If not, then I am not sure I will have any use for it.

Re: ARCHICAD 22 announced

poco2013 — Tue, 08 May 2018 23:27:13 GMT

Your asking a question that only the beta testers can answer definitively and their still under the NDA but based on the videos:

If you want the BdFt of the joists which are beams

1. set up a criteria to report the applicable beams
2. Set up a expression column to cal Bd Ft for each board based on the available properties as in"
(MROUNDUP(WIDTH) in * MROUNDUP(HEIGHT) in * LENGTH ft)/ 12
This give the Bd Ft for each joist
3. Then use the standard schedule sum Fot the total Bd Ft. of Joists.
A disadvantage is that BdFt should be reported in standard lengths which I think you can do with this feature using the IF Function -- but a nightmare to set up.

You still can't do BdFt for Wall Studs since the Framing tool returns a object which does not report the number of studs in a wall. You would still have to modify the GDL object to get that which is doable. Then you have the problem of the footer/header. Still best to do everything within the GDL object. Note that the wall Framing Tool is not a supported feature -- so your on your own there?

This brings up a recurring problem concerning Archicad's decision to use internal functions instead of a scripting tool. The requests for additional capabilities will be endless and, in the end, overly complicate this feature perhaps to the point of being seldom used - then another abandoned tool not completely thought through?? INMNSHO.

Re: ARCHICAD 22 announced

Barry Kelly — Wed, 09 May 2018 00:42:06 GMT

JGoode wrote:
Are we going to be able to utilise the Level Of Detail addition in our own objects?

Sure, I don't see why not.
You would have to get the settings from the MVO and then script your object to make use of them.
You can do all that now if you really want to by creating your own MVO LOD settings (but you are better off waiting for 22 now for compatibility reasons).

Barry.

Re: ARCHICAD 22 announced

Barry Kelly — Wed, 09 May 2018 00:47:15 GMT

poco2013 wrote:
Your asking a question that only the beta testers can answer definitively and their still under the NDA but based on the videos:

NDA has been lifted, so ask what you want.
For specific answers it will probably be best to wait until 22 has been released.

I am not familiar with the term 'board feet' but you can certainly determine the length of an element and round it up to ordering lengths.
Then schedule the total number of elements at that length.

Barry.

Re: ARCHICAD 22 announced

poco2013 — Wed, 09 May 2018 02:36:22 GMT

Barry wrote:
I am not familiar with the term 'board feet' but you can certainly determine the length of an element and round it up to ordering lengths.
Barry.

Boards are rounded up to standard lengths of 2' increments with a limit of 20' (16' practically) of which there is no function presently defined. You would have to use the IF Function to set a constant then use that constant in another formula to cal Bd Ft. (There is no SET variable function ). Also the if function always returns a value which make the logic near impossible. You then have the problem of which calculation is done first as there is no way to control the sequence of calculations unless possibly it is done in the order listed in the property manager -- and this approach may create conflicts with other formula?

I'm guessing most would find this procedure as too confusing?

Re: ARCHICAD 22 announced

Barry Kelly — Wed, 09 May 2018 03:53:31 GMT

poco2013 wrote:
I'm guessing most would find this procedure as too confusing?

It certainly won't be easy for the average user.

You can't control the sequence of calculations of the properties as such (you can in the expressions themselves), but if one property relies on the result of another property, then it won't be evaluated until the relied upon property is evaluated.
I guess you could get in a mess if one property relies on another, which relies on another, which relies on the first.

Rounding up to a specific (2') increment is easy and we can schedule each of those lengths.

The hard part would be breaking the length down to a maximum of 20'.
Actually that is easy too but you would end up with a decimal number rather than a length.
So for the short lengths you will be scheduling the actual rounded up length.
But for the long lengths (say 24') you will have either a number (1.2) of lengths (which is fine if you just want to schedule all these units and end up with a total number of 20' lengths) or you will end up with 2 properties - one that says 20' and one that says 4'.
Now the problem is in the schedule these will be separate fields and can't be combined into the one column/row.
I guess this is not a problem if you are happy to have 2 columns/rows in the schedule - one for 20' boards and one for shorter lengths.

I think I am starting to confuse myself here now.
I am not sure if I have explained myself terribly well.
A lot is possible with the expressions in properties - but I am not sure this is one of them.
The trick is trying to combine the results.

Barry.

Re: ARCHICAD 22 announced

Steve Jepson — Wed, 09 May 2018 04:54:56 GMT

poco2013 wrote:
Your asking a question that only the beta testers can answer definitively and their still under the NDA but based on the videos:...

In addition to the videos some of us have also participated in some Webinars which try to explain how it works.
I have been testing versions of 22 since before last November beginning with Alpha and pre-Alpha versions. I think it is safe to say that none of us are totally up to speed on the use of Expressions.
I think very few ArchiCAD users (including the Beta Testers ) will ever bother to even explore it. I hope I am wrong about that. In any case, the NDA was lifted on May 2. However, there is still perhaps some level of discretion that is appropriate since we have not finished Beta Testing yet.
Expressions are new enough that we were not told about them when we first began the testing back in November or so. We are now on the 7th testing version of 22 (Beta4 INT). There could be one more before the Release Candidate version. ? Expressions is a rather complicated aspect of the program that I have not had the time to explore much and people who do know the answer to my questions are very busy.

I have been asking the question about how Expressions may be limited by the Calculation Units available for Interactive Schedules since last February. 150 views on the BETA Forum 0 replies. I know what I think the answer is, but I would like to have it confirmed by someone who knows for sure before I spend a lot of time figuring it out myself.