topic Re: ARCHICAD 20 Update 6005 Released in Modeling

ARCHICAD 20 Update 6005 Released

Csaba Kezer — Thu, 15 Jun 2017 14:23:20 GMT

Hi All,

Today we have started to publicly release the next Update of ARCHICAD 20. This Update has been available as a preview version already and based on the feedback of the preview period we have slightly modified the Manager component of the server update packages.

The Update is already available for the AUS, AUT, GER, INT, NZE, UKI and USA versions, and will be followed by the rest of the language versions as soon as they pass our Quality Control. You can read the Release Notes and download the packages from our download sites:
- ARCHICAD 20 Update 6005 & BIM Server 20 Update 6022
- BIMcloud Manager 20 Update 6022 & BIMcloud Server/Delta Cache 20 Update 6006

BIMcloud Multiversion compatibility
This ARCHICAD 20 6005 Update along with the ARCHICAD 19 9001 Update enables ARCHICAD 19 and 20 to be compatible with the Multiversion BIMcloud, introduced with version 21.

Grasshopper Connection Add-On compatibility
With this new Update of ARCHICAD 20 we are introducing changes that needs a new, compatible Grasshopper-ARCHICAD 20 Live Connection as well. You can download this new Add-On from our
Rhino-Grasshopper download site. Beware that this new Grasshopper Add-On is only compatible with the new 6005 ARCHICAD Update and not with the previous ones.

Best regards,

Re: ARCHICAD 20 Update 6005 Released

Ben Cohen — Mon, 19 Jun 2017 00:32:46 GMT

Hi Csaba

We have found a serious bug in 6005 (Windows). The floor line of all our internal elevations (using the elevation tool) has disappeared in all projects. We are going to roll back to the previous hotfix if there is no 'easy' solution to this issue.

If you could get back to me ASAP it would be appreciated.

Re: ARCHICAD 20 Update 6005 Released

Barry Kelly — Mon, 19 Jun 2017 01:55:42 GMT

Hi Ben,
I seem to be getting mixed results.
File based on my template seems fine.
But one I got from an external source has the missing floor.
But only if the section/elevation cuts the floor slab.
If the section/elevation line is in front then the floor top surface shows fine.

If I copy and paste my slab and section from my template to the other file it is fine there.
Add a new section line (using the default settings in the external file) and it doesn't work.
Transfer settings from my section to the other and it then works.
I figured out the only setting that was different was the boundary display was set to 'No contours'.
Changed it to 'Uncut Contours' and all was good again.

Barry.

Re: ARCHICAD 20 Update 6005 Released

Ben Cohen — Mon, 19 Jun 2017 02:45:45 GMT

Hi Barry

All our projects are set to 'No contour' with the base of the elevation set to 0. This gives the best results, for us.
My guess is the elevations that are working in your tests are set to 'Uncut Contours'
Regardless, 6005 has created a major issue for our office. It has happened to ALL Projects (not mixed results) and all windows machines. 5025 was fine.

Re: ARCHICAD 20 Update 6005 Released

Barry Kelly — Mon, 19 Jun 2017 03:09:05 GMT

Yes our default is 'Uncut Contour'.

I can confirm that the floor (walls, ceilings) in section at the limits of the elevation extents did used to show in build 5025 and they no longer do in build 6005.

I am with you that when these elements are cut by the section/elevation line that cut edge should show regardless of the contour setting.
An element beyond the section/elevation line will show when at the extents so surely an element actually being cut should show as well.

Barry.

Re: ARCHICAD 20 Update 6005 Released

Csaba Kezer — Thu, 29 Jun 2017 17:35:42 GMT

Hi Ben & Barry,

Indeed we changed how we show contour lines of elements that have only one of their edges present in a S/E/IE. Previously we showed the contour lines of such elements with their Cut/Uncut Line & Pen, disregarding the setting of the Boundary Display function. In the new Update we take the Boundary Display setting into account:
- Uncut Contours: the contour line is displayed with it's Uncut Line & Pen
- No Contours: the contour line of the element disappears
- Override Contours: the contour line of the element gets overridden by the Line & Pen set as the override

So from this point the software works in a more logical way than before. At the same time I see your concern. If you have only an edge of an existing element present in a section, then you not necessarily want to replace this line with a special Boundary Contour. I guess what would make sense to have an On/Off checkbox for the Boundary Contour setting in the S/E/IE View Map settings with having it Off as default. This way your drawing's edges wouldn't get compromised, unless you specifically want them to be.

I will discuss this with our Product Development team and get back to you when I have some news.

Csaba

Re: ARCHICAD 20 Update 6005 Released

Barry Kelly — Fri, 30 Jun 2017 02:09:40 GMT

Hi Csaba,
Please don't change things mid-flight in a version for what is probably one of the last hotfixes for version 20.
Maybe change it as a 'new feature' for 21 but I would rather that didn't happen there either.

Fortunately for me it looks as if my template is set to use 'Uncut, contours, so I should see no change.
I don't particularly like using that as it forces lines to all boundaries, but I think it is because we had problems with it many years ago, or maybe it is because this option never existed in the early days and it is the default that just crept in.
I can't really remember now.
I know we have had trouble with the cut surface of the slab disappearing a few versions ago that got fixed.
If we really don’t want a line on the boundary then we will go over it with a white line.

However I feel (and I am sure Ben will as well) that when the edge of an element is on the limit of the section/elevation then that should still be there when 'no contours' is chosen.
It is a fine line (pardon the pun) but the element is still being cut and so should still be seen.
Otherwise we will have to set our sections to a limit of -1mm (or similar) to trick the slab into showing (or manually add lines).
This should not be necessary.

If we don't want the slab to show we could easily turn the layer off in that view or increase the limit of the section by a small amount.

Maybe there should just be 2 states, ‘no contour override’ and ‘contour override’.

‘No contour override’ will show what you have – if an element is in section and even if it is just the surface on the section limit it will show. If an element is not in section and extends beyond the limits of the section there should be no edge contour (no cut).
This is how the ‘no contours’ should work in my opinion (as it was before).
‘No contours’ is probably a bad name which is why I think it should possibly be ‘no contour override’

‘Contour override’ will then allow the contours to be set as any line type required (although it would be better to be able to override all 4 edges independently).
It could also have an option for ‘no line’ which would give the effect that you have now changed the ‘no contours’ option to.

Barry.

Re: ARCHICAD 20 Update 6005 Released

Brett Brown — Fri, 30 Jun 2017 02:23:22 GMT

Hi All, is this problem you are talking about anything to do with the intersection line between walls and a mesh in elevations? I was told months ago this would be fixed by Graphisoft Support. Still not in 6005. I am surprised a lot more users haven't been posting about it.

Re: ARCHICAD 20 Update 6005 Released

Barry Kelly — Fri, 30 Jun 2017 02:33:29 GMT

Brett wrote:
Hi All, is this problem you are talking about anything to do with the intersection line between walls and a mesh in elevations? I was told months ago this would be fixed by Graphisoft Support. Still not in 6005. I am surprised a lot more users haven't been posting about it.

No this is purely to do with section/elevation settings.

I am not aware of the wall/mesh problem.
May be good to start another post if there isn't one already.

Barry.

Re: ARCHICAD 20 Update 6005 Released

garimdias — Fri, 30 Jun 2017 03:09:45 GMT

Any idea why this is happening?? [/img]

Re: ARCHICAD 20 Update 6005 Released

Barry Kelly — Fri, 30 Jun 2017 03:14:06 GMT

garimdias wrote:
Any idea why this is happening?? [/img]

Why what is happening?

Barry.

Re: ARCHICAD 20 Update 6005 Released

Ben Cohen — Fri, 30 Jun 2017 09:31:14 GMT

Hi Csaba

Barry has hit the nail on the head with both points

1. Yes, as Barry said, Hotfix 5 is not the time to introduce this sort of stuff!! Why now? This change had a big impact on our 60+ users and we have had to roll back to 5025 - hours of wasted time. There was no indication in the release notes that this change was included in 6005. I can't remember a previous hotfix in the 10 years I have been a BIM manager, where a hotfix has made a significant change like this........... Because it should not happen!!
2. The 5025 behaviour is perfect. If an element continues through the extent of the section - no line. If an element starts or finishes on the extent, you get a line.

Csaba wrote:
"So from this point the software works in a more logical way than before"

how so?
What would be logical, would be for migrated projects to continue to display as per previous versions. If this can only be done when upgrading to v21, then so be it.

Re: ARCHICAD 20 Update 6005 Released

Ben Cohen — Fri, 30 Jun 2017 09:39:41 GMT

Barry wrote:
Fortunately for me it looks as if my template is set to use 'Uncut, contours, so I should see no change.
I don't particularly like using that as it forces lines to all boundaries, but I think it is because we had problems with it many years ago, or maybe it is because this option never existed in the early days and it is the default that just crept in.
I can't really remember now.
I know we have had trouble with the cut surface of the slab disappearing a few versions ago that got fixed.
If we really don’t want a line on the boundary then we will go over it with a white line.
Barry.

This is exactly why we have always used this option. It prevents the user having to place white lines on the boundaries.
It had been working perfectly for years

Re: ARCHICAD 20 Update 6005 Released

Erwin Edel — Mon, 03 Jul 2017 12:46:41 GMT

Before I go ahead and install this: do I understand correctly that if I have an elevation that displays down to -100 mm below project zero and I have a terrain slab on -100 mm, it will not show any lines unless I use the Boundary Display option or extend my elevation down to -101 mm (which is stupid)?

Re: ARCHICAD 20 Update 6005 Released

Barry Kelly — Tue, 04 Jul 2017 01:08:43 GMT

Erwin wrote:
Before I go ahead and install this: do I understand correctly that if I have an elevation that displays down to -100 mm below project zero and I have a terrain slab on -100 mm, it will not show any lines unless I use the Boundary Display option or extend my elevation down to -101 mm (which is stupid)?

Correct.
Although it may be a bit hit and miss.
I have discovered an existing file where the elevations are fine (with the boundary contour set to 'No contours'), but if I copy and paste the model and elevation to a new file (based on exactly the same template) then the contours disappear.

Just discovered that it is because the 'Legacy' for intersection and surface methods was on in the old file and not my new template.

Barry.

Re: ARCHICAD 20 Update 6005 Released

Erwin Edel — Tue, 04 Jul 2017 06:37:25 GMT

Thanks for clearing that up Barry. I do not use legacy settings.

I've already been struggling with my terrain composite, as it uses the cutline pen that is set for the building material (non composite) setting currently, which I would say is also a bug, but at least it can be fixed to behave.

I have tried the boundary settings in the past, but this leads to unwanted behaviour when you want to partially show existing neighbouring buildings, where they also get a thick line where I cut them off.

This 'fix' is something I do not understand. As pointed out, it was working, now it is broken.

Please unfix it.

Re: ARCHICAD 20 Update 6005 Released

Erwin Edel — Tue, 04 Jul 2017 10:23:49 GMT

Just tested this on a workstation we don't use as often. Upgraded there and indeed if you use the option no boundary, any elements that are on the edge of the section/elevation do no get a line. So my example of having terrain show as a single line no longer works.

To be clear, this is a slab that is 'cut' by the elevation marker, so in my opinion, it is valid to see this cutline. If it were uncut, I would indeed not wish to see it, which is what the option suggests: no uncut contours. Just because I do not cut the whole element, but only the very boundary, doesn't mean it shouldn't display.

After reading the patch notes, I do think I will update and just live with either 2D line work for the terrain and such or masking out unwanted uncut lines with the option to show uncut line boundaries. There are some bugfixes that would benefit me.

But please, please and I've set this out through our reseller too, allow for cut element lines that are on the boundary to show somehow.

Re: ARCHICAD 20 Update 6005 Released

Anonymous — Fri, 07 Jul 2017 16:01:47 GMT

I'm sure there are lots of additional users out there who are equally irrate.

GS should NEVER make such a global change without. Lots of people are now trying to figure out a work around.

So, how do I roll back to Hotfix 5025?

Re: ARCHICAD 20 Update 6005 Released

Ben Cohen — Tue, 18 Jul 2017 03:57:20 GMT

Csaba wrote:
I will discuss this with our Product Development team and get back to you when I have some news.
Csaba

Hi Csaba

Any news on this?
We currently have our BIM server on 6005 and our clients rolled back to 5025. Which we would rather not do.
Wondering what to do next.....

Re: ARCHICAD 20 Update 6005 Released

Anonymous — Fri, 21 Jul 2017 14:53:04 GMT

Like Erwin said, "...allow for cut element lines that are on the boundary to show somehow."

I don't have a project with a stair right now, so I'm not going to update to 21.

We've worked hard in our firm to eliminate 2d line work, but I'm not sure how Graphisoft suggests we proceed.

I've attached two images from a layout book. The version in 20 shows the floor line. 21 doesnot. But this seems so basic, how do I get the perimeter surfaces to display AS SINGLE LINES with the current software?