topic Re: Hotlinked models - Cut additional element - wall openings in Modeling

Hotlinked models - Cut additional element - wall openings

Klik — Wed, 20 Oct 2021 08:39:46 GMT

Hello everyone!

I have encountered a problem and I need some help 🙂

Here is the description:

I have two models:

Structural model - contains RC walls, slabs, foundation, columns etc. Basically, model contains only structural elements and defined wall/slab openings. Openings created using tool - OPENINGS.
Architectural model - contains masonry walls, wall finishes e.g. plasters etc. also with door openings

I am joining those 2 models via hotlink in a 3rd model - master model.

In master model I cut e.g. plaster with openings made in structural model via cut additional element.

Worked great, but..

Problem appeared when updated the structural model (containing the opening) - all the additional cuts were gone.

Additional cuts are not lost while updating architectural model tho.

Is there any way that openings in one model cutting elements in another model are not lost in updating any of these models?

Re: Hotlinked models - Cut additional element - wall openings

Christophe Fortineau — Wed, 20 Oct 2021 09:49:41 GMT

Hello Klik,

Are you able to share some screen captures ?
I am not sure to understand your problem.

Re: Hotlinked models - Cut additional element - wall openings

Klik — Wed, 20 Oct 2021 10:06:08 GMT

Yes, sure.

Green one is a RC wall with some openings - structural model

Yellow one is wall - architectural model.

Both are placed in master model via hotlink.

How to create the opening in architectural wall (architectural model) using the opening from structural model?
While I can use "cut additional element", the "connection" is lost every time I update structural model.

Thank you for replay, Christophe!

Re: Hotlinked models - Cut additional element - wall openings

Christophe Fortineau — Wed, 20 Oct 2021 10:37:31 GMT

Hello Klik,

To create the opening in architectural wall (architectural model) using the opening from structural model, I think you should merge an ifc file which include only openings through architectural model.
I think your concern is linked to the absence of a spatial relationship between the opening and the architect model, but maybe I misinterpreted your subject.

Re: Hotlinked models - Cut additional element - wall openings

Klik — Wed, 20 Oct 2021 10:45:48 GMT

This would mean, that I have two openings - 1 in structural, 1 in architectural model. This is a long way 🙂

Thought it was possible to link elements via hotlink module somehow.
Anyway, thanks for your time and answering to my post 🙂

Re: Hotlinked models - Cut additional element - wall openings

Christophe Fortineau — Wed, 20 Oct 2021 13:10:36 GMT

Klik,

I think that the problem is more in the assembly of the models than in the possibility of automating the holes. Automatically importing holes is quite possible, but i do not think it possible in this case.

Re: Hotlinked models - Cut additional element - wall openings

Klik — Thu, 21 Oct 2021 11:51:14 GMT

Can you elaborate more about the assembly of models? The knowledge could be useful on the next projects.

Re: Hotlinked models - Cut additional element - wall openings

Erwin Edel — Thu, 21 Oct 2021 13:22:37 GMT

In these instances I clash the structural model of the external party with a 'core of loadbearing' elements only version of my own model to quickly see if I'm missing something.

Removing part of your own model (composites etc) and using a 3rd party model is setting yourself up for a messy experience and quite often you still need to match your openings (doors, windows etc) to their model.

Re: Hotlinked models - Cut additional element - wall openings

Christophe Fortineau — Thu, 21 Oct 2021 18:51:06 GMT

Hello Klik,

Convert an IFC Provision for Void to an Archicad Hole

An IFC Provision for Void is a building element proxy with an associated special IFC attribute (Provision for Void). An IFC Provision for Void cannot contain a door or window.

The architect receives Provisions for Void from other disciplines in the form of an IFC model. This template can either contain other template elements as well, or only Provision for Voids.

Building Element Proxies representing IFC Provisions for Void under imported into Archicad as Shapes and are classified as Provisions for Void

Re: Hotlinked models - Cut additional element - wall openings

Barry Kelly — Fri, 22 Oct 2021 00:44:27 GMT

Isn't this just a case that because these are Hotlink Modules, you have to amend/add the openings in the original Hotlink file?

Yo can't amend a hotlink in the master file it is being linked to.

So the openings in one hotlink can not be associated to the other hotlink.

They will have to be separate openings in each file.

Or do I not understand the problem?

Barry.

Re: Hotlinked models - Cut additional element - wall openings

Klik — Fri, 22 Oct 2021 05:28:42 GMT

That is exactly the case. 2 files are hotlinked in the master file. There are some openings in structural model and now I would like to expand those openings in architectural layers. I understand this cannot be done.
Do you have any workaround for this? How about adding openings in a master file?

All my exports to IFC files come from the master file so it would spare some time to add openings in there instead of separate models. Would it work? Or the openings would be gone after updating the hotlinked model?

Re: Hotlinked models - Cut additional element - wall openings

Barry Kelly — Fri, 22 Oct 2021 06:37:42 GMT

Once placed in a master file, all you can do with a hotlink file is move it and turn layers on or off.

All editing of a hotlink must be done in the original hotlink file.

That includes adding openings - so it will have to be done in each hotlink file.

The only thing I can think of is if you 'Merge' the two files rather than place them as hotlinks.

Now you will have an editable master file but you will no longer have the option of updating the original model as it is no longer a hotlink.

All editing can now be done in the final merged file and you can export that as your IFC file.

I guess experiment and see what happens.

But keep a copy of your original files just in case it all goes pear shaped or you need to modify the original structural or architectural models.

Barry.