topic Re: this has to be the toughest program to learn alone in Modeling

this has to be the toughest program to learn alone

Anonymous — Thu, 10 Mar 2011 20:30:13 GMT

Hi i'm a student and about to give up on archicad. How are people supposed to learn this program. There's no decent tutorials except the pre-programmed soul less and useless ones that ship with graphisoft, (sound like steven hawkins narrates them). i'm at one of the best architectural schools in London,
and nobody knows how to use this program, students or lecturers. There is no classes anywhere,no books anywhere, It a shame iv always tried to promote this program whilst everyone else championed Rhino, Vectorworks or Microstation. I got Vectorworks a couple of days ago and in one night i know more about that program than months toying with archicad and i'm booked on a full day Vectorworks course( 80% student discount!) recommended by VW.
Truthfully feel iv wasted a lot of time on this un- user friendly program.

Re: this has to be the toughest program to learn alone

Anonymous — Fri, 11 Mar 2011 04:33:42 GMT

Takes a bit of work to get used to if you already know another system. Historically, one "difficulty" newbies have with ArchiCAD is discovering that some things are easier than they think. Their preconceptions or expectations about "how things probably work" may be the source of their difficulty.

It would have been wiser to post this before you got to the boiling point, when you would have been more receptive to help, not boiling mad. After "months toying with ArchiCAD ...." really tells a story.

Talk to your local reseller and sit down with him/her to help expose the problem and get up to speed. They surely realize that helping students is tending the garden. Within limits, when you say 'jump,' they should be asking 'how high?'

To bang home the point, my 10 year old grand niece did pretty nicely with ArchiCAD 13 in about 2 hours after I showed her some basic tools and basic "CAD" moves. Got a basic 2-story house and focal room of interest with furniture, and roof and skylight.

She got more tripped up by trying to get her 5th grade teacher to sign a paper stating that she was a student so she could get a "student" version, than she did with the software.

Re: this has to be the toughest program to learn alone

Anonymous — Fri, 11 Mar 2011 18:23:14 GMT

I understand why you are having trouble with archicad, I had some difficulties when i began as well. I would keep going at it though, because once you do learn the program it is amazing. I am currently working on a corporate tower, and the design is great. I started 5 months ago, and in the beginning, i would have never thought i would get this far. Don't worry about having troubles because once you learn the basics then the rest is downhill from there.

Good luck,
Nick

Re: this has to be the toughest program to learn alone

Laszlo Nagy — Fri, 11 Mar 2011 20:05:06 GMT

Have you done the Interactive Training Guides?

http://www.graphisoft.com/education/training_guides/

paulnewsome wrote:
Hi i'm a student and about to give up on archicad. How are people supposed to learn this program. There's no decent tutorials except the pre-programmed soul less and useless ones that ship with graphisoft, (sound like steven hawkins narrates them). i'm at one of the best architectural schools in London,
and nobody knows how to use this program, students or lecturers. There is no classes anywhere,no books anywhere, It a shame iv always tried to promote this program whilst everyone else championed Rhino, Vectorworks or Microstation. I got Vectorworks a couple of days ago and in one night i know more about that program than months toying with archicad and i'm booked on a full day Vectorworks course( 80% student discount!) recommended by VW.
Truthfully feel iv wasted a lot of time on this un- user friendly program.

Re: this has to be the toughest program to learn alone

Anonymous — Tue, 01 Nov 2011 13:55:43 GMT

I sympathise with the OP - I have only just begun messing with Archicad and I confess it's a dog of a thing ... not because it's a badly designed app, it's just that there is next to ZERO tutorial information out there.

The ones from graphisoft stink - badly ... they are nothing more than a moronic boring click here, set this value, do this, do that in this order with no explanation of WTF we're doing or why - this is NOT learning it's mimicking.

There is no structured tuition to actually learn the program, where to start, what does what or even a rough outline of a typical workflow. I really wish Lynda.com or VTC or any of the other *professional* tutor companies would put out something. I can see the potential but OMFG - it is such a pain to understand even the basics.

Every tool appears to have a zillion options and nobody bothers to mention what they are for, what they do or how changing them affects your output.

I've googled myself into a coma and still can't advance beyond drawing a few walls around the place.

Going into a reseller in an attempt to learn the thing is (IMO) testimony to the inadequacy of the training material out there and the help files/system.

I'm not sure how much longer I can hold out ... I'm considering taking a look at something like Chief Architect or some of the other low-end consumer apps -- at least they appear to be better supported.

Sorry for ranting .. but once I got started its been hard to stop.

Re: this has to be the toughest program to learn alone

Karl Ottenstein — Wed, 02 Nov 2011 16:53:54 GMT

Xennon wrote:
The ones from graphisoft stink - badly ... they are nothing more than a moronic boring click here, set this value, do this, do that in this order with no explanation of <b>[censored]</b> we're doing or why - this is NOT learning it's mimicking.

I agree, for the ones that I viewed to see if they could help any of my clients. The tutorials that are based on clicking on Favorites make the 'student' nothing more than a monkey IMHO...

Cheers,
Karl

Re: this has to be the toughest program to learn alone

Anonymous — Sun, 01 Jan 2012 23:38:57 GMT

I was wondering if anyone has come across any online tutorials that may help me get started on this programme! i'm was taught Vectoworks in my first year at university however when working in a practice over the summer no one seemed to of hear of it! i thought the change would be beneficial however i could really use with the help to learn the basics if anyone can provide it?

Thanks

Re: this has to be the toughest program to learn alone

Laszlo Nagy — Mon, 02 Jan 2012 13:10:15 GMT

Chek this post I just wrote:

http://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?p=199671#199671

Re: this has to be the toughest program to learn alone

Katalin Takacs — Tue, 17 Apr 2012 09:28:19 GMT

I would complete the list of recommended learning materials with the followings:
- Tutorials: http://www.learnvirtual.com/ArchiCAD by Tom Simmons
- Books: on Amazon you can find more ArchiCAD related books, e.g. "Discover Smart BIM: An Interactive Guide to ArchiCAD" by Ken Good
- Help: find detailed descriptions about all options and settings in ArchiCAD - http://www.graphisoft.com/products/archicad/ac15/OnlineHelp/
- In general: if you need help to get much information about the local learning possibilities, please contact your distributor - http://www.graphisoft.com/support/

Re: this has to be the toughest program to learn alone

Anonymous — Sat, 19 May 2012 20:38:26 GMT

I agree. Even worse, as a Grad student studying Instructional Systems Technology (a MS in which we teach people how to use programs, learn software, and basically instruct using best practices) I submitted my renewal 2 weeks ago and have not heard a word after submitting my student ID, filling out the forms, etc.

They point you to a learning site, which, of course, costs more money (i.e. Tom Simmons).

Monkey see monkey do is all I have found. How about a lesson with a blank slate, instruct the tool bars, then how to begin a project, with interactive problem solving Q/A in the Help area?

This will never become used in the United States unless they have a better response to students, who will then lead the charge in bringing this to the forefront of instructors, such as myself, and champion the cause of why this product is better than AutoCAD, VectorWork, both of which have much better customer support.

If my trial ends on the 21st as slated, so long ArchiCAD, it will never see the light of day at Indiana University where I attend. skaiser_633@hotmail.com

Re: this has to be the toughest program to learn alone

Anonymous — Sat, 17 Nov 2012 01:37:51 GMT

i have been a student to archi cad for two years now. its a steep learning curve that took dicipline and practice. i found some nice tutorials online for download, all video, and just went step by step. takes effort and practice, and it is well worth it

Re: this has to be the toughest program to learn alone

stefan — Tue, 08 Jan 2013 11:17:43 GMT

FWIW, I am teaching ArchiCAD at our university. I used to teach in a classroom with 20 computers and have a HTML-based overview.

The text was quite summarized and did not include every single button or dialog to click. But it explained things.

This year, I switched to video-tutorials. I made quite a series for ArchiCAD 16 (and a few other software applications). But they are in Dutch, as my students are Flemish and we use the regional ArchiCAD version with the Dutch/Belgian libraries from Kubus.

So far, I had positive reactions from my students. They can learn at their own pace. And we have Q&A sessions for peer tutoring, when they have gone through the tutorials. I'd rather spend time explaining things one-on-one than to repeat the same basics again and again while going too fast for some (so they open Facebook) or going to slow for others (so they open Facebook).

ArchiCAD is not the easiest software, but it is much more user-friendly and accessible than e.g. AutoCAD. However, you try to do quite complex things (create a 3D model of a building) from the very beginning in ArchiCAD, while in a first AutoCAD course you usually draw a few 2D lines... which obviously is easier to do.

Re: this has to be the toughest program to learn alone

Richard Morrison — Tue, 08 Jan 2013 16:05:38 GMT

I've watched a lot of ArchiCAD videos over the years. The best ones, IMO, are the ones put out by Eric Bobrow. He has a "quick start" course, I believe, for a reasonable cost, as well as a bunch of free tutorial videos. These can be accessed from www.bobrow.com. I have no financial connection with him; I just think he is able to explain things from a novice user's viewpoint better than anyone else.

Re: this has to be the toughest program to learn alone

Anonymous — Mon, 23 Nov 2020 13:43:31 GMT

I agree - this holds true in 2020, especially under the Covid lockdown - The most impenetrable "help" I have ever come across and the amount of time trying to do simple things as a novice user id costing huge sums of money in lost productivity. Myself and other new users are all struggling and even contemplating quitting!

Re: this has to be the toughest program to learn alone

Anonymous — Mon, 30 Nov 2020 09:43:01 GMT

Can confirm. As someone who's giving Revit and Archicad a test drive, I can tell you that Archicad is not as user friendly, as it's often talked about. And I'm talking about basic functionality that should be discoverable without googling them.

Want to dimension something? Click one, click two... Now what? Right click? No. Enter? No. Esc? NO! Double click on empty space!

You want a wall to be 200cm away from another wall? It's simple, just click on the wall, then Ctrl+D, then click on the very edge of the wall, then drag it over to the other wall, than carefully take your hand of the mouse because if you move it accidentally everything falls apart, than just type D X 200+. Simple! I couldn't believe when I read this, it's like those old AutoCAD versions, with blue screen and no GUI, where you typed in everything.

Re: this has to be the toughest program to learn alone

runxel — Mon, 30 Nov 2020 11:20:11 GMT

I think it depends very much on your expectation and mindset.
See, "The only intuitive interface is the nipple". And this holds true for software made for specialists.

Every software you have ever used must have been learned. Regarding to "that other software": I still think Archicad is much more user oriented and has a much higher discoverability.

The double-click at the end of dimensioning? Sure, that's weird! But every software has it's quirks. And take my word: Archicad has less of those than you think right now.

By the way: The "moving things"-thing is not as crude as you think.
Lock the direction with shift, and press "R", now you don't have to worry about your mouse.
And another often overlooked quick tip: You can take measurements while doing this (use the keyboard shortcut to activate) and then give the measured distance back into the tracker with enter.

Re: this has to be the toughest program to learn alone

Anonymous — Mon, 30 Nov 2020 13:20:51 GMT

runxel wrote:
But every software has it's quirks.

Definitely, I'm not saying one is better than the other. I'm just saying that Archicad is not easy peasy, smooth sailing all the way. Because that's often how it's portrayed online when someone asks for a comparison. Nicer UI and clearer parameters help, but it sure could learn a couple of things from that "other software". Other way around also.
If I could combine them into one program, that would be perfect

Re: this has to be the toughest program to learn alone

Nader Belal — Mon, 30 Nov 2020 14:46:07 GMT

@paulnewsome

First, don't dispare ... ArchiCAD needs a different mindset to those of other CAD or BIM tools, which makes it more powerful than others.

Second, there are hundreds of Youtube Channels that post thousands of video tutorials beside those of Graphisoft.

Third, you could also go with LinkedIn Learning, such as https://www.linkedin.com/learning/archicad-23-essential-training?trk=learning-topics_trending-courses_related-content-card&upsellOrderOrigin=default_guest_learning

and that is the only site I say, it worth your money for the offer they make (in general not specific).

Fourth, if your collage offer Grasshopper classes, go for it, ArchiCAD and Grasshopper work nicely together.

Fifth, search for special ArchiCAD forums, many users would have faced the same problems as you are facing and usually are quicker and more responsive, I advise you to go with https://www.facebook.com/groups/archicad.es, it's in spanish, but that is one of quality and almost no spam

Re: this has to be the toughest program to learn alone

Richard Morrison — Mon, 30 Nov 2020 18:23:31 GMT

Prvoime wrote:
Want to dimension something? Click one, click two... Now what? Right click? No. Enter? No. Esc? NO! Double click on empty space!

You want a wall to be 200cm away from another wall? It's simple, just click on the wall, then Ctrl+D, then click on the very edge of the wall, then drag it over to the other wall, than carefully take your hand of the mouse because if you move it accidentally everything falls apart, than just type D X 200+. Simple! I couldn't believe when I read this, it's like those old AutoCAD versions, with blue screen and no GUI, where you typed in everything.

I wish that the shortcuts were taught more explicitly up front, because until you learn those, Archicad seems ponderously slow. For example, I like "Delete" as the final click to finish dimensions. I have the mouse wheel set to left-click as Delete. So, a dimension is click-click-left mouse wheel.

Moving the User Origin can be very fast (with the Tracker for relative input), especially if you have keyboard shortcuts worked out. (I have thumb buttons on my mouse for Alt and Ctrl so most keyboard shortcuts are a single keyboard letter.) Right-click on a wall or dimension or text (or....) plus S will put you in that mode. Typing "G" in the middle of command will switch the geometry mode on-the-fly. REALLY learning snap guides and guide lines makes things much easier. There are so many of these shortcuts that once you get these "in your bones", things can go very fast. All of these and more are unfortunately hidden until too late in the game when beginning users are frustrated.

Re: this has to be the toughest program to learn alone

Hmooslechner — Tue, 01 Dec 2020 05:18:18 GMT

Here is how i teach my Austrian students in german step by step:

At school in Salzburg - i show them - step by step - the things to do in quite a lot repeatings once again and again - first very fast, when they have to look only to get the taste of it, then very slow, so they can work on their own, again faster and faster and then i really run from one to the other to correct things individually.

At the same day at home, i do the lesson for video and put this online on Youtube - (switching more and more to vimeo - because i increasingly dont trust youtube anymore so much.. They are deleting videos when your opinion is not conform to the mainstream)

Then i put my Vids in the german forum in the Tutorial section - by the way - where is such a topic here in this forum?

MAKE IT!

(Like this in our german forum)

my examples: https://forum.graphisoft.de/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=26600

maybe somebody should do that similar in english...