topic Re: Renovation filters behave strange in Modeling

Renovation filters behave strange

kosta — Thu, 24 Feb 2022 19:30:00 GMT

Hi.

All is good except new elements are displaying walls while I have only doors to be demolished, I don't want that opening to be filled with wall after door is taken out of wall, it should left the passage in idea.

First is existing plan and is ok

Second is door which is to be demolished and is ok

Third is after demolition and is ok

But fourth one is not ok , why it behaves like that ? Thanks for help !

Re: Renovation filters behave strange

Barry Kelly — Fri, 25 Feb 2022 00:51:20 GMT

If your were to simply delete the door, Archicad would heal the wall.

I guess the renovation filters are doing the same logic.

You are demolishing the door so there needs to be a new wall to fill the gap.

You could split the wall either side of the door and demolish the whole wall and door.

Or add in a new opening.

If you were modelling it all as new you would be doing the same thing.

Either two separate walls or a wall with an opening.

So when using the renovation filters you still need to tell Archicad to demolish the wall or add an opening.

Barry.

Re: Renovation filters behave strange

kosta — Fri, 25 Feb 2022 06:55:21 GMT

Hello @Barry Kelly

Sorry I pressed accept solution accidently... when I set after demolition it shows doors as openings and it is ok , but I don't want that door to be filled with wall, why you filling wall with brick if I'm demolishing only doors? I understand what you're saying like when I delete door it will fill a wall but deleting on a drawing and setting it as demolished is 2 different purposes.

Can I somehow automate process and set demolished doors to turn into openings when status "new construction" is set ?

Re: Renovation filters behave strange

Barry Kelly — Fri, 25 Feb 2022 08:45:36 GMT

I have set as "Not the Solution" - you should be able to do that too if you decide it is not really a solution.

Unless that is just a moderator thing we can do.

Human logic says you are deleting a door, so there should just be an opening left.

But Archicad logic says you are deleting a door so it needs to fill in the wall.

If you were swapping the door for a window, then you would demolish the door and add a new window.

Same with an opening, you need to demolish the door and add a new opening.

What if you wanted an opening there of a slightly smaller size?

The way you are thinking is, you would demolish the door, Archicad would leave an opening, then you would have to add a new wall and then add a new smaller opening.

Archicad says you demolish the door, it adds a new wall automatically, then you add the new smaller opening that you want.

Much easier and makes sense when you think about it.

Barry.

Re: Renovation filters behave strange

kosta — Fri, 25 Feb 2022 16:43:51 GMT

Thank you @Barry Kelly , I understand and agree that is more better way to do that, it is just complicated a little bit to understand what is going on under the hood.

But I still have a strange behavior, will show that:

"after demolition" state is hiding the wall width lines as you can see, why it behaves like that?

Re: Renovation filters behave strange

Barry Kelly — Sat, 26 Feb 2022 08:32:34 GMT

I don't use the renovation filters very much.

I assume the side lines are missing because you have a new door going in that space.

In my image here you can see the door on the left is not being replaced (by another door - but Archicad will add a new wall automatically).

The door on the right will be replaced with another door - so that is probably why the side lines are not there.

I can't see any settings to make this any different.

I am inclined to agree with you that the side lines should show though.

Barry.

Re: Renovation filters behave strange

kosta — Sat, 26 Feb 2022 09:30:57 GMT

@Barry Kelly Thank you for response, now I have to add a lines by adding new layer and inserting them manually by keeping them in layer, quite time consuming I have to say, have dozens of old doors that needs to be taken out of walls and just replaced with new ones in same place, I didn't find a way to make that line visible too.. (except turning window into projeted mode but that will disable symbolic view which I preffer in that case, that also helps the door but projected shows the sill line which I don't want for doors to see), in other words manually draw lines for each door is only choice now to keep that correct.

You said that you don't use renovation filters, why ? are renovation tools buggy ?

I found renovation workflow very usable and quite convenient as it keeps everything in single place without need to copy same drawing several times for each representation.

If it's a bug I will be glad if dev team will look into that issue, and too bad you don't release hotfixes)

Re: Renovation filters behave strange

Barry Kelly — Sat, 26 Feb 2022 11:53:55 GMT

Do you need to show a version of the plan with the doors removed?

One to show what is existing, one for what will be demolished and another to show what is new.

I am not so sure there would need to be one to show after demolition - but there could be if you think so.

The reason I don't use the renovation filters is I only work on new projects.

Rarely do I do anything with additions or renovations.

Barry.

Re: Renovation filters behave strange

kosta — Sat, 26 Feb 2022 13:33:53 GMT

@Barry Kelly I understand that different countries have different standarts for showing various states of work while draw.

Yes of course I need to show the plan with doors/windows removed as far as it has "after demolition" view function, I didn't made that renovation tool right?) AC have that functionality already which is correct and works well till you put a new door above old. then it starts that wall width line disappearing. anyway temporally solution is found, hope that will be improved in future releases.

Re: Renovation filters behave strange

kosta — Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:48:42 GMT

here I have a door frame only and I want frame to be demolished, then I inserted opening in new wall for creating gypsum board inside, all is good except when I switch to planned status

it spoils the connection of gypsum wall ( in fact any wall)

and only way to deal is to disable intersections, but in this case all intersections of new and existings walls will be off all over the drawing, see the video.

I can upload a scene if needed, thank you for your time, so far previously we found one bug related to line disappearing, I hope I'm not bothering you too much, just trying to finish my drawing and use all tools AC have in renovation toolset. Thank you !

The issue was solved by changing a junction order, but what it has to do with that certain situation I have no idea..

Re: Renovation filters behave strange

Barry Kelly — Mon, 28 Feb 2022 00:48:28 GMT

Walls that touch the reference line of another wall will always react with each other (except as I explain later).

So even thou you place a large opening, there is still a wall there as far as Archicad is concerned.

When you place the smaller wills inside the opening, they are interacting with the wall where the opening is.

If adjusting the junction order works, then that is great - that affects how the wall trim with each other.

The other thing you might try is layer intersection priority number.

You will have to place the smaller (gypsum) walls in a different layer to the main wall.

Then in the layer settings, make sure the layer with the gypsum walls has a different intersection priority number to the layer for the main wall.

If these 2 numbers are different, the walls will not automatically trim with each other.

Just remember to set the IP numbers in the layer combinations you use as well.

They can be the same/different in each layer combination depending if you want then to interact or not.

Maybe you don't in a plan layer combination, but you do in an elevation combination.

Barry.