topic Re: How to avoid high column of earth when using real RL's in models in Modeling

How to avoid high column of earth when using real RL's in models

KeesW — Fri, 18 Feb 2022 04:58:15 GMT

I prefer using real RL's for floor levels (as recommended by Graphisoft) and am modelling a house on a steeply sloping site with ground level about 180m above sea level. External 3D models therefore default with 180m high columns of earth under the ground floor. Just as well I am not building on top of Mt Everest!

I can avoid this by modelling with nominal levels - say ground floor at 5m (to allow for the slope). Archicad examples conveniently model their examples on flat, or nearly flat, sites floating near sea level which entirely avoids this issue. Is there a way to use real RL's on high sites without generating this problem?

Re: How to avoid high column of earth when using real RL's in models

Lingwisyer — Fri, 18 Feb 2022 05:46:56 GMT

Recommended by Graphisoft? Then what is the point of the Sea Level input on the Project Location page...?

Ling.

Re: How to avoid high column of earth when using real RL's in models

KeesW — Fri, 18 Feb 2022 06:56:47 GMT

I don't know. You tell me. What are the relationships between Project Zero and Sea Level and ADL?

Re: How to avoid high column of earth when using real RL's in models

Barry Kelly — Fri, 18 Feb 2022 07:08:05 GMT

Try just adjusting the skirt height of your mesh.

It can also be dragged in 3D with the height option in the pet palette.

Barry.

Re: How to avoid high column of earth when using real RL's in models

Lingwisyer — Fri, 18 Feb 2022 10:13:42 GMT

In your case Project Zero & Sea Level are the same. I usually have Project Zero be my ground floor slab or a chosen datum point on the site.

ADL? Traffic?

Re: How to avoid high column of earth when using real RL's in models

ispyridis — Sat, 19 Feb 2022 09:48:58 GMT

See this Poster....

BTW I have to report that coordinate OBJECTS 24 report the same values for height with either selection of showing value based on Altidude or Project Zero. This is wrong. The values when we select from project zero should be relative to altitude. So if altitude 15 and we have a level at sixteen meters the values should be 16 m from sea level and 1m from Project zero.

Re: How to avoid high column of earth when using real RL's in models

Laszlo Nagy — Sun, 20 Feb 2022 20:22:46 GMT

Can you upload your screenshots again? Currently, they are so small I can not discern any text in it.

So, this is in Archicad 24?

Re: How to avoid high column of earth when using real RL's in models

ispyridis — Mon, 21 Feb 2022 13:07:47 GMT

Hi Lazlo, can you try to save locally? if still is unreadable can I send as PDF? the image has size 2000x4000 px.

Re: How to avoid high column of earth when using real RL's in models

ispyridis — Mon, 21 Feb 2022 13:11:09 GMT

Here Pdf.

Re: How to avoid high column of earth when using real RL's in models

David Shorter — Tue, 22 Feb 2022 02:45:30 GMT

Project zero is the base level for the project. Its actual starting position in space. The zero level position in Archicad.

Sea level and Altitude (<toAltvalue>) are relative levels which don't change the position of the model in space but allow level annotation to reflect these references.

Altitude (Sea Level) is set in the Work Environment under Project Location (see below)

Thats the good news.
Unfortunately.....

1) Altitude can only be set in meters, which is NOT Australian Standard for Levels.

2) And this is the killer......

These settings cannot be used as the default when placing levels using the Level Dim Tool. So when placing a spot level using the Level Dim tool the Text part must be selected after placement, the setting changed to Custom Value and <toAltvalue> selected. Its makes this method unworkable. A medium site model my have 100+ spot levels and to select these manually to show the correct level is not practical.

Re: How to avoid high column of earth when using real RL's in models

David Shorter — Tue, 22 Feb 2022 03:17:45 GMT

Oh I should add that I always work to real levels based on the AHD (Australian Height Datum) and use this as my Project Zero and my Zero Story. Story 1 then becomes the bottom story of my building.

This way there can be no errors.

If the site is way above the Sea level then I limit the depth of my sections and elevations to just below the buildings lowest floor and have a similar cut plane in the 3D window to avoid large columns of earth !!!!

Re: How to avoid high column of earth when using real RL's in models

Lingwisyer — Tue, 22 Feb 2022 06:40:12 GMT

https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Wishes-forum/Level-Dimension-to-Reference-Level-sea-level/m-p/187290/highlight/true#M12303

You can select all Level Dimension Markers, deselect one then select just the text of that single Marker. This will allow you to modify all of them at the same time.

And though you set Sea Level in meters, all references to it display in what ever units your Dimension Settings say

Ling.

Re: How to avoid high column of earth when using real RL's in models

David Shorter — Tue, 22 Feb 2022 07:30:26 GMT

Yes I know but its a horrible workaround for something which should be available when placing the Level Dim in the first place.

You still have to place the Dim and then go back and edit.

This is not good workflow and open to error. It also means you can have different levels on plan and to those shown in elevation and section.

It should be a single setting for all environments.

Re: How to avoid high column of earth when using real RL's in models

KeesW — Sat, 26 Feb 2022 11:17:23 GMT

Hi David - Good to hear from you on this topic. It it was your advice that prompted me to work in the same way as you - which is now generating my tall earthen column when I generate perspective or axonometric views. I know that I can limit the heights by limiting the depth of sections elevations but I don't think that this is the same as creating a cut plane. Cut planes affect sections and elevations and often need to be adjusted to suit these views for, e.g. internal elevations and split level views. One can't have a separate cut plane for elevations/sections and perspectives - or can one?

It would surely be more convenient if Archicad had a command or setting that would limit the height of the earth column in 3D views without losing the benefits of preserving actual levels and datums in all drawing views?

Re: How to avoid high column of earth when using real RL's in models

KeesW — Mon, 28 Feb 2022 01:16:33 GMT

Thanks David. I don't have the same Mesh picture as you. No 'Bottom and Top', no 'Mesh Skirt Height (T)'. I try to show a picture of what I have.

Re: How to avoid high column of earth when using real RL's in models

KeesW — Mon, 28 Feb 2022 01:17:49 GMT

Sorry - I meant 'Thanks Barry'!

Re: How to avoid high column of earth when using real RL's in models

Lingwisyer — Mon, 28 Feb 2022 04:18:46 GMT

Mesh Skirt Height being the distance down from the Mesh Reference Plane to the bottom of the mesh is the 1000 in your image.

You might be able to put something like -175000 as your value for it to offset it upwards above the Mesh Reference Plane given your terrain difference is less that 12.5m.

Ling.

Re: How to avoid high column of earth when using real RL's in models

Barry Kelly — Mon, 28 Feb 2022 02:25:38 GMT

I had a look at this again and what I said won't help you in your case.

Because you seem to be modelling your building at 0 (zero) floor level, and are setting your mesh reference line down at sea level (1187440) and then setting the heights of the top points to their true height above sea level (hence the tall mesh), you won't be able to control the skirt height as I suggested.

You can make it deeper (adjust the figure (860 shown here) or drag the base with the pet palette - height option.

But it can only be moved up to the reference line (zero skirt height) - it can't have a negative value to reduce the height of the mesh above the reference plane.

The only way to hide this height is to limit section and elevation heights and to use a cutting plane in 3D as mentioned before.

Otherwise, set the mesh reference line to 0 (zero) but this will lift the entire mesh up higher.

Then you will have to adjust the height of every top node down by 187440 in your case.

This can be done in 3D with the pet palette with 'Z' height option.

Drag each node down and type ... 187440 ENTER.

If you don't have too many nodes this will be fairly easy.

If you have a lot, it will be rather tedious.

Barry.

Re: How to avoid high column of earth when using real RL's in models

Lingwisyer — Mon, 28 Feb 2022 03:16:04 GMT

"But it can only be moved up to the reference line (zero skirt height) - it can't have a negative value to reduce the height of the mesh above the reference plane."

AC25 thing? As it works fine for me.

Ling.

Re: How to avoid high column of earth when using real RL's in models

Barry Kelly — Mon, 28 Feb 2022 04:05:12 GMT

Actually you can if you type the figure in the mesh settings (info box).

It seems you can't drag the base in 3D above the reference plane which is what I was trying.

So, @KeesW , if you type a figure like this in your mesh settings, it should look a lot shorter.

Barry.