topic Re: Composites and Intersection Priority in Modeling

Composites and Intersection Priority

Anonymous — Wed, 24 May 2023 06:27:05 GMT

Hi all,

I've been playing around with Composites and Intersection Priority now for a while, and seem to be getting the deal with it quite well, and it's a wonderful and intuitive tool when everything works! But, there are a lot of things that I can't do, and when I search forums I can't really find that much about it. If there is some tutorial handling more advanced questions (tutorials tend to only cover the basics) please post it and I will have a look!

(I have read posts like https://blog.graphisoftus.com/archicad-education/tips-and-tricks/building-materials-three-examples-that-balance-model-and-drawings and https://blog.graphisoftus.com/archicad-education/tips-and-tricks/building-materials-one-example-to-rule-them-all that discuss this matter a bit, but I think my questions are more basic questions, that I would guess there are ways to cope with!)

I will post just 3 quick things that I find odd, that I presume a lot of people have had to handle. I'll divide it into three different posts.

First question (see q_1.png)

Labels show the skins (hope you don't mind the swedish!) and I wrote the materials' Intersection Priority on the side.

Two types of walls and their intersection.
1 - Here everything works fine. This is ok by me.
2 - But when they meet at a corner - how would you do this? (by the way, why are the two top layers of the thinner wall extending past the structure of the thicker wall?)
3 - My solution would be to create copies of the wall types and add "outisde corner" to the name, and assign a stronger plasterboard (here 920) to the outside of both composites. But A) Extra work and adds uncomfortable duplicates to both the material list and composite list... and B) It doesn't really work - see picture. Is there any way to understand or control when it shows the cut line of the material or the skin separator line of the other composite?

Re: Composites and Intersection Priority

Anonymous — Thu, 09 Nov 2017 15:58:43 GMT

Second question (see q_2.png)

Let's say I wasn't happy with the way the walls intersected in the first place, and I want the two boards of the thinner wall to end at the outer board of the thicker wall. I would solve this by making weaker versions of the boards as I did in the picture.

This question has some similarities to the first one, but is there any way to in this case control it as to show the cut lines of the two boards instead of the outer skin separator line of the thick wall? How do you all solve this?

My work around that I have used sometimes is to place a skin of 0,1 mm "air" (with priority 0) on the inside and outside of every composite, and have the thick line outside of that. It's a bit buggy, A) messes up 3D a bit, B) doesn't always work, C) messes up schedules, D) using the wall end tool doesn't really work as good as the one I like to use only wraps around one layer of the wall.

So if anyone has an easier solution to this, I would love to know!

Re: Composites and Intersection Priority

Anonymous — Thu, 09 Nov 2017 16:03:22 GMT

Third question (see q_3.png)

How do you handle composites and how they interact with doors in section?
1 - is there any way to control this part and wrap around some layers? In the door settings (of the built-in door object - maybe this is the key - do you all use / do your own even more advanced door/windows?) I can only control it in plan.

2 - just a side question, and I'm not sure if I ever would like it to... but just to understand how things work: why doesn't the wall continue down under the door? If i raise the door 0,1 mm up the wall will continue. But maybe this is just a smart feature, hehe.

3 - One way of dealing with the mentioned question of wrapping round the edge would be to set the material's cut in the composite to the same thickness as the outer edge. This makes a lot of good things, but the thicker line that is added above is to me very problematic.

Do you generally set the material's cut pen in composites to be thick as the outside or thin as the inside? To me it feels best to put it thin and use smart tools as wall end tool, door/window reveal settings and such things, but when it's not possible in some occasions, as in this example, I get insecure...

Re: Composites and Intersection Priority

Ahmed_K — Tue, 22 Mar 2022 09:18:29 GMT

it's 2022 and still suffering at corners, there is some random behaviour at T juctions, corners, and wall reference line position,

you have to handle at least 5 parameters to set a good connection,

it's a mess

Re: Composites and Intersection Priority

Barry Kelly — Tue, 22 Mar 2022 09:52:35 GMT

What issues are you having?

Generally 'T' and 'L' intersections are no problem at all.

Strong building material will cut through weaker ones.

The more wall skins you have, the trickier it will get.

And different composite walls trimming can work in one situation but not in another.

You may find that you have to duplicate the same building material to allow for different strengths.

i.e. inside plaster/outside plaster, inside insulation/outside insulation.

Even brick skins, you may need a weak, medium and strong version of the same building material.

I am not saying that absolutely every situation will be automatically solved, especially when you have 3 or more walls all connecting at the same point.

If you can show some examples of what is not working, maybe we can help.

Barry.

Re: Composites and Intersection Priority

Ahmed_K — Tue, 22 Mar 2022 12:27:51 GMT

Re: Composites and Intersection Priority

Barry Kelly — Wed, 23 Mar 2022 01:45:50 GMT

Is this what you are trying to achieve?

It is just a matter of creating building materials with the correct strengths - strongest cuts weakest.

Barry.

Re: Composites and Intersection Priority

Lingwisyer — Wed, 23 Mar 2022 06:14:12 GMT

The issue with that is that sometimes your 400 material is the same as your 100 material, which may end up causing the reverse issue at other corners, for example say on the opposite end of the thin wall you have another double leaf wall continuing upward.

Ling.

Re: Composites and Intersection Priority

Barry Kelly — Wed, 23 Mar 2022 06:57:57 GMT

Not a problem at all if you keep the outside material on the outside and the inside material on the inside.

Barry.

Re: Composites and Intersection Priority

Lingwisyer — Wed, 23 Mar 2022 08:21:12 GMT

Upwards. Which results in your 200 cutting your 100.

Re: Composites and Intersection Priority

Barry Kelly — Wed, 23 Mar 2022 09:49:42 GMT

Easy fix.

In my example make the 100 strong plaster 400.

So both plaster skins are stronger than the brick and the cavity.

But that breaks things when you want an internal partition wall maybe.

The brick needs to be stronger than the plaster, but the plaster need to be stronger than the brick for the external corners.

So you can't win.

But you would not build this.

The top horizontal wall should have a cavity as well, then all problems solved because you can make the internal brick stronger than the internal plaster.

As I did say before, possibly not all situations can be catered for, but just remember stronger cuts weaker.

The problem comes when you want one building material to be stronger in one situation but it has to be weaker in another situation (the partition wall) all in the same plan.

But then is the construction correct?Would this scenario ever really happen?

Barry.

Re: Composites and Intersection Priority

Ahmed_K — Wed, 23 Mar 2022 13:18:59 GMT

here is another solution that i found,

For double brick composites, create a flipped copy, to generate real inrersections

Re: Composites and Intersection Priority

Ahmed_K — Wed, 23 Mar 2022 20:10:48 GMT

After some research, i got this result,

The philosophy is to generate real connection in plan, like real life construction

the idea is to work with the same brick material , one weak, another one strong,

and have to composites, one with strong outside, the other is the inverse,

in the composite settings, i made invisible extremity lines of the bricks , so it will look countinious when the wall conncts to the inverted composite,

here is a screenshot where i made an exemple of a wall with some possible connections,

Re: Composites and Intersection Priority

Ahmed_K — Thu, 24 Mar 2022 15:25:52 GMT

I Have a project in progress, and i used this technique, it's Really powerfull, and it works even with complex juctions , without any problem,

Pros : Correct prensentation in 2D AND 3D, no chaotic junctions, almost all works clear, Correct quantiti takeoffs ( wall quantity takeoff, no matter the materials inside, the wall classification only matters, for exemle, 35 thickness wall classification calls all composites that have 35 cml thickness, )

CONS : This method don't work only when you want to extract quantity of Brick in detail, Area and / or Volume Strong brick sometimes is thick, sometimes is thin, depending on the composite,