topic Re: AutoCAD VS AC in Modeling

AutoCAD VS AC

Anonymous — Tue, 05 Oct 2004 00:10:38 GMT

Can anyone chime in and help me with the age old question which is better?
Does Archicad have any conflicts with AutoCAD? What about vis-a-versa? I
work for a company that uses AutoCAD exclusively, we now have an employee
that wants to get two licensees of Archicad. Before I say no I would like
to
learn more about Archicad and here from users that used to use AutoCAD or
that use both programs.

Thanks

Re: AutoCAD VS AC

Aaron Bourgoin — Tue, 05 Oct 2004 01:58:11 GMT

Dear CAD Dog,

If you check my profile, you'll see that I sell ArchiCAD. That put up front, I would suggest that you try and speak to someone perosn to person or over the phone about what you want to do.

Your requirements are particular to your office and you will get responses from all many of good souls here who know nothing about save for the fact that you are located at the office.

There are plenty of people on this forum who work as consultants, who work in firms, who work in their basement. If you contcat me I would be happy to steer you toward someone near your office who can help answer your question.

In my mind, speaking an an ArchiCAD user formewrly repsonsible for integration between the two platforms in a 30 person office, I think ArchiCAD does a great job translating files back and forth.

You can reach me if you need to via private message.

Cheers

Re: AutoCAD VS AC

stefan — Tue, 05 Oct 2004 08:14:22 GMT

CadDog wrote:
Can anyone chime in and help me with the age old question which is better?
Does Archicad have any conflicts with AutoCAD? What about vis-a-versa? I
work for a company that uses AutoCAD exclusively, we now have an employee
that wants to get two licensees of Archicad. Before I say no I would like
to
learn more about Archicad and here from users that used to use AutoCAD or
that use both programs.

Thanks

ArchiCAD is very good in doing the whole model.

If you plan to generate sections in the ArchiCAD model and finish them as 2D-drawings in AutoCAD, then you are following the wrong approach.
However, making details in AutoCAD and connecting them in the ArchiCAD model & PlotMaker Layout might be a valid approach, IMHO.

I've worked at an office using VectorWorks, but they had ArchiCAD in the past. They used it for presentation purposes only and then did all plans in VectorWorks. This didn't work and they got rid of ArchiCAD.
Don't try to do the same.

What might be a problem is that ArchiCAD might not directly follow the traditional workflow in large AutoCAD-based offices, where different people work on different DWG's and then project-engineers link everything together with XRef's.
Sure, ArchiCAD will support this approach, but the power lies in extracting everything from the one Building Model.

I seriously suggest to contact a reseller in your area and ask them to give a personalised demo, making suggestions of how to introduce ArchiCAD in your workflow.

On a personal note, you might even like ADT more, because it sits inside AutoCAD, which is what you are familiar with. I'm not saying the ADT is as good as ArchiCAD (it is not), but it might suit your workflow better.

Re: AutoCAD VS AC

Anonymous — Tue, 05 Oct 2004 15:43:23 GMT

Hi, CadDog, I hope I could throw some light opon that problem.

I am both an ArchiCAD and AutoCAD user, having used both applications more than 8 years /AC since v.4.5 and AutoCAD since R12/. In my oppinion AC is definitely the better option to choose for work at a big office or working alone. It has almost every feature AutoCAD has (and many more it can only dream for ), it's more user friendly and makes collaboration between different designers easier.

What you have is a slightly different problem - to have two AC users in an AutoCAD community - it's happened to me and it's not very pleasant. Two way connectivity is ok between AC and AutoCAD, that's guaranteed. It is also easy to split the project among different designers - one does floors 1,2,3; another floors 4,5 and 6; another sections and elevations and so on. Of course it will be easier to do it using just one application! Tension is created not by different appications but by people who use them!

Should you give it a try? Yes, of course! In this way you will get the right impression what AC can really do and what better things it can offer exactly for you. The best way to learn it is to watch how it works in your own office presented by some of your own colleagues - what they show you at the resellers shops is just advertising . Even if you do not switch entirely to AC I'm sure you will find some areas of application in which it will be the best , if not only sollution. In this way you will have a choice!

I've converted some of my long-time-AutoCAD-users colleagues into AC users and at my previous job the firm officially swithed from Allplan and AutoCAD to AC because of two AC users - me and a colleague!

I am alwaus available for further advise in ICQ or by phone.

Re: AutoCAD VS AC

TomWaltz — Tue, 05 Oct 2004 16:43:32 GMT

If you really want a large dose of information, I would suggest the book Archicad Project Framework, available from objectsonline.com, or the Archicad Training Guide.

The book is intended to describe best practices for using Archicad, and in the process will give you a good idea of what is involved in using it. I think it's about $60.

You can get other similar documents at tr.graphisoft.com, under the Archicad 9 Learning Guide. This is a free PDF download.

Re: AutoCAD VS AC

Anonymous — Tue, 05 Oct 2004 17:15:08 GMT

We run a split platform in our office and just to put my thoughts in, once you get the processes set up, the two programs can work well together. The key to the whole process is the communications and translations of files between the formats. Autocad does not recognize AC files (or anyone elses for that) but through translations, they can co-exist.

My suggestions is to look at AC and Autocad and see the strengths and weaknesses of each. By changing some of the production processes, you may be able to get the most out of both programs and see a real benifit.

Re: AutoCAD VS AC

glenn_peters — Wed, 06 Oct 2004 00:21:33 GMT

We are also a multi-platform office (hardware & software) and use ArchiCAD and AutoCAD together without difficulty -- as others have stated, however, it does require some forethought and planning as to how you intend to use the different software programmes and what the flow of work will be.

There is also (dare I say it?) Revit as an option. I am not that familiar with this software, but the fact that it has been brought into the Autodesk "empire" may eventually improve its relationship with AutoCAD (up until recently I understood that it was less capable than ArchiCAD at the DWG import/export business).

I would still recommend ArchiCAD, of course! (been using it since 1991 after trying it out in the late-1980s).

Re: AutoCAD VS AC

Daniel Lindahl — Sun, 17 Oct 2004 09:47:51 GMT

CadDog wrote:
Can anyone chime in and help me with the age old question which is better?
Does Archicad have any conflicts with AutoCAD? What about vis-a-versa? I
work for a company that uses AutoCAD exclusively, we now have an employee
that wants to get two licensees of Archicad. Before I say no I would like
to
learn more about Archicad and here from users that used to use AutoCAD or
that use both programs.

Thanks

Dear CadDog

I used Autocad from version 9 through to 14 (still have a 2000 version for utilitarian needs).

Back in '98 I took on a complex 3D building project that I knew would stretch beyond ACAD's flatland limitations. OK, I had done some 3D Autocadding as well, but knew that would not cut it. So I got a copy of Archicad and taught myself to run it, designing what was to become the landmark building at Expo2000 in Hannover. (Image attached)

I have never looked back! Though I am a sole practitioner, I am also doing contract work for a larger practice that are exclusively Autocad. They have no problems with me doing the work in Archicad and publishing the end result as DWG files. All the drawings come through as regular paperspace and modelspace DWG files with all the right scales and layer combinations in the viewports.

As well as that they get the added benefit of all that the Virtual Building in Archicad has to offer in terms of visualisation along the way, and rendered views for the clients. I like to handle whole projects, but sometimes I just do the 1:200, 1:100, 1:50 plans, elevations, and sections, and others in the office do the detail drawings in Autocad, based on section cuts I give them.

That approach seems to work well in a mixed environment, as Plotmaker (Archicad's answer to paperspace) easily imports DWG files into its sheet layouts.

I have recently completed the full documentation including detail drawings for a $6M shopping centre extension, with old DWG's xref'd into the Archicad file.

Give it a try even if you only buy one licence, stay close to the process, and find out what Archicad is capable of.

Cheers
Daniel

Re: AutoCAD VS AC

Scott Davis — Sun, 17 Oct 2004 16:04:00 GMT

stefan wrote:
On a personal note, you might even like ADT more, because it sits inside AutoCAD, which is what you are familiar with. I'm not saying the ADT is as good as ArchiCAD (it is not), but it might suit your workflow better.

ackkkk! ADT?? If you are going to go with an Autodesk product, get Revit over ADT. Revit works seamlessly with AutoCAD, and you can even get Revit Series, which you get both softwares for a huge discount.

Re: AutoCAD VS AC

stefan — Sun, 17 Oct 2004 19:05:09 GMT

Scott wrote:
stefan wrote:
On a personal note, you might even like ADT more, because it sits inside AutoCAD, which is what you are familiar with. I'm not saying the ADT is as good as ArchiCAD (it is not), but it might suit your workflow better.
ackkkk! ADT?? If you are going to go with an Autodesk product, get Revit over ADT. Revit works seamlessly with AutoCAD, and you can even get Revit Series, which you get both softwares for a huge discount.

Scott, I know you're a Revit-devotee and I appreciate your presence on this forum, but you have to be reasonable: if someone has a workflow based around AutoCAD (including Lisp & ARX-programs), not even Revit will fit the bill.

All in all, he's talking about adding ArchiCAD into an existing AutoCAD workflow, not about replacing AutoCAD. And in this particular scheme, adding ADT might work better then adding Revit or ArchiCAD (which would have about the same result, except that the employee he's talking about has experience with ArchiCAD, so it seems.

(Never thought I would ever defend ADT over ArchiCAD or Revit...)

Re: AutoCAD VS AC

Scott Davis — Sun, 17 Oct 2004 20:30:22 GMT

My firm has a workflow based on AutoCAD. Introducing Revit into that workflow is FAR easier than introducing the complex beast of ADT. If they have LISP and ARX apps, then can continue to use them on AutoCAD.

He doesn't have to replace AutoCAD at all, Revit and AutoCAD work very well together. There is a white parer about interoperability on Autodesk's website, and there was a live webcast last week on the topic. Search for 'webcast' on Autodesk's website, and you can find the recorded version of past webcasts.

I would add either ArchiCAD or Revit to the workflow before trying to tackle ADT. Learning any of the three would be a 'change' and I would rather my people learn a true BIM application like AC or Revit before learning a semi-BIM app like ADT.

Re: AutoCAD VS AC

Daniel Lindahl — Sun, 17 Oct 2004 23:14:07 GMT

Totally off topic, but just out of curiosity: A few posts back in this thread I included a JPG attachment, but inexplicably, I am unable to see it or open it in the forum, all I get is a box with a red X. Was it visible to others, (in which case my internet settings must be wrong) or did you also all get the red X (which I guess would mean the JPG was corrupted)?

Maybe something to do with installing Windows service pack 2 ??

Stefan? Scott?

Re: AutoCAD VS AC

Link — Sun, 17 Oct 2004 23:25:50 GMT

Gidday Daniel!

Good to se you posting a little more regularly. I hope all is well!

I got the red X, but I look forward to seeing it!

Cheers,
Link.

Re: AutoCAD VS AC

Rob — Mon, 18 Oct 2004 03:11:25 GMT

Daniel,

I guess, there is a size limit for images posted on. It could be that.

Re: AutoCAD VS AC

Daniel Lindahl — Mon, 18 Oct 2004 03:50:57 GMT

Link wrote:
Gidday Daniel!

Good to se you posting a little more regularly. I hope all is well!

I got the red X, but I look forward to seeing it!

Cheers,
Link.

Gidday Link!

OK, I tried a smaller resampling of the image, that didn't work either so the image must be corrupt. Here is another one that should work.

Re: AutoCAD VS AC

Link — Mon, 18 Oct 2004 04:23:36 GMT

Ha! That's awesome!! How much GDL did that take mate?

Either way I love it!

Cheers,
Link.

Re: AutoCAD VS AC

Daniel Lindahl — Mon, 18 Oct 2004 05:31:21 GMT

Link wrote:
Ha! That's awesome!! How much GDL did that take mate?

Either way I love it!

Cheers,
Link.

This was way back in 98-99 in AC6.0. Actually I started the project in AC5.1 but was stymied on modelling the roof until 6.0 came out shortly after. The improvement in the mesh tool allowed me to model the roof accurately. (In 5.1 you could only do rectangular meshes!).

I even managed to convince Graphisoft to sell me the upgrade in the international version, at Australian prices, through the local German distributor (that was almost half the cost of the German upgrade).

The main GDL objects I created specifically for this back then was the Trussed Portal Frame, Straight and Curved Beams, and Multi-Escalator.
The only other escalator available at the time on OO was very limited and badly scripted, so I had to make my own, for accurate documentation of the available options.

Most of the rest of it including the sloping glass walls, was modelled from the standard AC components.

It was a fairly obscure pavilion, required to be knocked down after expo, but since the visitors overwhelmingly voted for it to be the landmark pavilion I believe it is still standing at the Hannover Messe.

Here is another view of it.

Re: AutoCAD VS AC

Link — Thu, 21 Oct 2004 05:45:59 GMT

Well I am very impressed mate! I think it's one of the best ArchiCAD buildings I've seen. Defintely the most interesting!

I only wish the image was bigger!

Good job. Cheers,
Link.

Re: AutoCAD VS AC

Anonymous — Mon, 25 Oct 2004 03:23:09 GMT

"Link" wrote:
Well I am very impressed mate! I think it's one of the best ArchiCAD buildings I've seen. Defintely the most interesting!

I only wish the image was bigger!

Good job. Cheers,
Link.

That's amazing job. Actually, I learned some GDL but only can do some simple chair. Every time I want to create some formless architecture and I find ArchiCAD is diffcult to generate. So I sometimes decide to learn other 3D software (eg 3d studio..).

Using Mesh can create that curved roof is incredible! It's encourage.

Well Done in AC.

Re: AutoCAD VS AC

Daniel Lindahl — Mon, 25 Oct 2004 06:54:43 GMT

Larry wrote:
Link wrote:
Well I am very impressed mate! I think it's one of the best ArchiCAD buildings I've seen. Defintely the most interesting!

I only wish the image was bigger!

Good job. Cheers,
Link.
That's amazing job. Actually, I learned some GDL but only can do some simple chair. Every time I want to create some formless architecture and I find ArchiCAD is diffcult to generate. So I sometimes decide to learn other 3D software (eg 3d studio..).

Using Mesh can create that curved roof is incredible! It's encourage.

Well Done in AC.

Thanks for the encouragement Larry!

Here is another little freeform job I did recently. Most if this project was GDL objects rather than regular AC components, but again, the roof is a mesh. Click on the image to get a larger version. I will add some more views of the same bus shelter after this message, as well as a photo of the finished product.