topic Re: Is it possible to smooth out the transition between the cirular oblique walls on adjacent floors in Modeling

Is it possible to smooth out the transition between the cirular oblique walls on adjacent floors

Isaac Newton — Tue, 16 May 2023 22:52:52 GMT

Good time of the day, gentlemen

Might I ask you please, whether it's possible to smooth out the transiton lines between the circular oblique walls on the adjacent floors. In my particular case, I have a tower in the shape of the truncated cone. Its walls have to be devided by the floors, because it has doors on each of them. Apart from that different section of that tower must have other wall types on each floor. Various sections of it are represented with the fire resistant walls on each floor. Geometricaly, however, the side surface of the tower is smoth and doesn't have any steps. Each truncated cone on each floor has the same base radius as the top radious of the truncated cone on the previous floor, and they all have the same angle of inclination. That's what it looks like:

The same lines are visible on the elevation views:

Those lines also get plotted.

Could you tell me please, whether it would be possible to smooth them the BIM way, and if so, how to do that

Re: Is it possible to smooth out the transition between the cirular oblique walls on adjacent floors

Barry Kelly — Mon, 03 Apr 2023 02:43:59 GMT

Walls that have their surfaces in the same plane, should join without a line as you would expect.

For straight walls this would be very easy to align them.

For conical walls, they may be the same angle, but maybe they are not joining perfectly.

In fact if you look closely in 3D, even when you get the correct radius, the facets of the curve will be generated differently.

That is why you will see a joining line.

I am not sure how you would solve this problem.

Apart from one full height wall, but that won't work in your case if you want different walls on each storey.

Maybe the only way to control it is to us straight walls instead of curved.

Draw circles at the required radii for each floor.

Use the magic wand, set to a particular number of segments per curve (circle).

This will give the same number of segments on each floor and hopefully they will all line up.

Barry.

Re: Is it possible to smooth out the transition between the cirular oblique walls on adjacent floors

Barry Kelly — Mon, 03 Apr 2023 02:50:29 GMT

@Barry Kelly wrote:

Maybe the only way to control it is to us straight walls instead of curved.

Draw circles at the required radii for each floor.

Use the magic wand, set to a particular number of segments per curve (circle).

This will give the same number of segments on each floor and hopefully they will all line up.

Nope, forget that.

It is hard to get the exact radius (mind you I didn't try very hard) but you will end up with vertical joins for all of the straight walls.

Barry.

Re: Is it possible to smooth out the transition between the cirular oblique walls on adjacent floors

Barry Kelly — Mon, 03 Apr 2023 02:56:47 GMT

Your external skin seems consistent, so maybe that can be one wall from ground to roof.

Then add a secondary wall for the internal of each floor?

They will be divided by the floors so you won't notice the joins between floors - unless you have voids - but then they could be the same internal wall across those storeys.

Barry.

Re: Is it possible to smooth out the transition between the cirular oblique walls on adjacent floors

Ignacio Azpiazu — Mon, 03 Apr 2023 03:34:05 GMT

This will not work, or require workarounds (like, say, wall openings with zero-height infill walls for insertion of doors-windows only), if your door/windows project beyond the exterior wall face, but: what happens if you use a full-tower-height SEO operator conical wall, or shell, subtracting some minimal thickness from the outside face of the actual walls? (Which is, by the way, the way smooth stone wall faces were made; first you stack the blocks, then you cut them to form the smooth surface.)
[This is the mirror image of Barry’s suggestion of using separate walls for the outer and inner layers. Depending on the design there may be advantages to either. If the above works, which I have not tried.]

Re: Is it possible to smooth out the transition between the cirular oblique walls on adjacent floors

Lingwisyer — Mon, 03 Apr 2023 06:06:43 GMT

@Isaac Newton: Apart from that different section of that tower must have other wall types on each floor. Various sections of it are represented with the fire resistant walls on each floor.

Just clarifying, your outer skin is constistant from top to bottom, but your inner skin varies by floor, hence the need to use multiple walls for your exterior?

Ling.

Re: Is it possible to smooth out the transition between the cirular oblique walls on adjacent floors

Isaac Newton — Mon, 03 Apr 2023 06:20:11 GMT

Well, they actually have the same materials all along, on the inside as well as on the outside. It's just that some parts of those walls should be fire resistand and hence should be represented differently in 2D. However, those parts vary on each floor, i.e. that's not one and the same segment of the wall all along on all the floors

But, also, as I understand if I place the doors that have a certain elevation relative to the bottom of the wall, all the wall beneath that door gets cut out either. I have some doors in that wall, therefore, even if it wasn't for this division for the fire resistant and ordinary walls, it would still be necessary to divide that wall by the floors. Or am I perhaps wrong, and I could get on with a single wall somehow in that case?

Thank you!

Re: Is it possible to smooth out the transition between the cirular oblique walls on adjacent floors

Lingwisyer — Mon, 03 Apr 2023 06:33:44 GMT

The wall below the door should only be getting cut where it intersects with a slab under the door. So that does not prevent you using a single wall, but, if you are linking your fire resistance to each wall segment and your rating is not constistant vertically through your floors, then you are stuck with the multiple walls as far as I know...

Re: Is it possible to smooth out the transition between the cirular oblique walls on adjacent floors

Isaac Newton — Mon, 03 Apr 2023 06:43:35 GMT

But as far as fire resistance goes, what would you rather suggest: to sacrifice its precies definition, and just apply the hatching to the respecive sements of the wall on each floor, or still, to keep them devide by the floors, and having fire resistance accurately ascribed to each segment, but instead having this outer layer shell that @Barry Kelly and @Ignacio Azpiazu have suggested?

Re: Is it possible to smooth out the transition between the cirular oblique walls on adjacent floors

Lingwisyer — Mon, 03 Apr 2023 07:24:02 GMT

Is your fire rated wall identical to your non fire rated wall and you are just noting which ones require it or do they have different skins?

Do you need the fire rated walls represented in 3D?

Either way, I would probably not go with Ignacio's suggestion as I find SEO operations can impact performance a lot so it is best to avoid them when you can. The advantage though is that in using a SEO there is nothing extra to do when you modify your penetrations... so it might be worth it depending on your SEO load...

Re: Is it possible to smooth out the transition between the cirular oblique walls on adjacent floors

Isaac Newton — Mon, 03 Apr 2023 09:06:50 GMT

You know, that's actually a very nice idea actually! Thank you very much! I've comprehended what you meant just now. Although, @Lingwisyer says that SEOs are affecting the performace, there are probably not that many of them to slow it significantly down

Re: Is it possible to smooth out the transition between the cirular oblique walls on adjacent floors

Isaac Newton — Mon, 03 Apr 2023 09:18:39 GMT

It's former, and it probably wouldn't need to be represented in 3D. The only concern is that it probably might need to be dipsplayed in the schedules. But anyway, I think that @Ignacio Azpiazu 's idea is very nice. It probably won't slow down the process much, cause I don't have too many of the SEOs in the project. I din't understand what SEO meant first

But thank you all, gentlemen!

Re: Is it possible to smooth out the transition between the cirular oblique walls on adjacent floors

Isaac Newton — Mon, 03 Apr 2023 09:18:07 GMT

@Barry Kelly , @Ignacio Azpiazu , @Lingwisyer thank you all, gentlemen! All the suggestions are great! I found @Ignacio Azpiazu 's idea to use SEO especially great!

Re: Is it possible to smooth out the transition between the cirular oblique walls on adjacent floors

Barry Kelly — Mon, 03 Apr 2023 09:21:52 GMT

The only problem with SEO, is it won't show on floor plan.

Barry.

Re: Is it possible to smooth out the transition between the cirular oblique walls on adjacent floors

Lingwisyer — Mon, 03 Apr 2023 09:23:58 GMT

You are only SEOing like 1mm off the outside face of the wall, so there is not much to show...

Re: Is it possible to smooth out the transition between the cirular oblique walls on adjacent floors

Isaac Newton — Mon, 03 Apr 2023 09:24:20 GMT

That's true, but in my case I think it's even better that way!