topic Re: Advanced archicad training? in Modeling

!Restored: Advanced archicad training?

jespizua — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 14:39:24 GMT

Hello, i´ve been using archicad for two years now, and i think a have a nice level using archicad. I´ve seen Virtual Tutor by lazzlo, rellay great training, and other guides but i would like to achieve an advance level. Is there any advance archicad´s tutorials in dvd format?
Thaks in advance!

Re: Advanced archicad training?

Steve Jepson — Tue, 04 Mar 2008 06:32:47 GMT

What does that mean? "advanced" ArchiCAD user?

Re: Advanced archicad training?

Karl Ottenstein — Tue, 04 Mar 2008 18:42:04 GMT

jespizua wrote:
Is there any advance archicad´s tutorials in dvd format?

I'm not aware of any advanced training available on DVD, although I believe I heard a rumor that someone might be working on such a project.

At present, such training is more of an in-person kind of thing. 😉

Cheers,
Karl

Re: Advanced archicad training?

jespizua — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 19:58:44 GMT

Karl wrote:
jespizua wrote:
Is there any advance archicad´s tutorials in dvd format?
I'm not aware of any advanced training available on DVD, although I believe I heard a rumor that someone might be working on such a project.

At present, such training is more of an in-person kind of thing. 😉

Cheers,
Karl

Thanks for the info, would be nice such dvd. The problem with one on one training lesson is that is to much expensive from the student´s point of view.

Re: Advanced archicad training?

Rex Maximilian — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 23:38:24 GMT

Hi jespizua, I've created and teach a "Master Class" that I have done in SoCal late last year. We are also planning a session later at Taliesin in AZ. Stay tuned for announcements.

Re: Advanced archicad training?

Erika Epstein — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 02:44:10 GMT

Jespizua,
Rex's Masterclass along with his template is excellent. You will save far more $ working smarter than his fees.

Re: Advanced archicad training?

KeesW — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 23:45:11 GMT

We in Aus have structured training courses run by Graphisoft. I've just done the 'Professional Archicad' course (conducted by David Shorter, one of our gurus) and it was very good. I guess that would class as an advanced archicad course. Surely similar courses are run in other parts of the world?

Re: Advanced archicad training?

Anonymous — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 22:26:06 GMT

'advanced training' = oxymoron, no? It seems to me that each person, once familiar enough with the program - will find their own creative path with the program in league with their own unique perspectives, history and talents...

Re: Advanced archicad training?

KeesW — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 22:55:14 GMT

JWD

I think that doing a course is worthwhile and has at least one advantage over learning it yourself - one covers most of the software instead of 'cherry picking' favourite and immediately relevant topics. Having a broad understanding helps to find ones way when one does get stuck.

Of course, external training should complement, and not replace, ones own practice, learning and usage.

Re: Advanced archicad training?

Anonymous — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 23:07:35 GMT

All I'm saying - is that once you're at an 'advanced' level and considered fairly expert in the program (i.e. you've got the basics of GDL coding down and can be fairly 'creative' with it) - exposure to the techniques of others CAN be useful - though sometimes of fairly LIMITED utility insofar as one usually has one's own trajectory at that point. Does that make sense? Or do we just mean very different things by the word 'advanced'...?

Re: Advanced archicad training?

Dwight — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 23:15:39 GMT

JWD wrote:
'advanced training' = oxymoron, no? It seems to me that each person, once familiar enough with the program - will find their own creative path with the program in league with their own unique perspectives, history and talents...

We wish, but time is money. For anyone actually working professionally in Archicad, one-on-one training or a master class or any other form of external problem-solving input has enormous payback because it shortcuts the learning process. So many Archicad skills are difficult to write about yet simple to demonstrate. Even just sitting for an hour watching another user potentially reveals new strategies.

Other than celebrating Archicad with the numerous power users on this forum, my travels to Archicad users worldwide show a remarkable ineptitude with the application. Most users exploit a mere fraction of Archicad's undocumented productivity strategies.

Re: Advanced archicad training?

__archiben — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 23:42:33 GMT

JWD wrote:
... insofar as one usually has one's own trajectory at that point.

i guess it all depends on how much you know that you don't know. if you know that you know it all, chance are you don't . . .

Re: Advanced archicad training?

Erika Epstein — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 05:50:06 GMT

JWD wrote:
- exposure to the techniques of others CAN be useful - though sometimes of fairly LIMITED utility

No matter how how much you know, or think you know, you will always benefit form getting together with others either in a class or a user group. You will learn so much from others. See new ways of using the program, new ways of thinking about how to use the program. Open your mind to new....

Unless your close-minded.

Re: Advanced archicad training?

Anonymous — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 09:02:55 GMT

I try not to be closed-minded, personally... but there comes a time to really run with the ball. I'm talking about 'breaking all the rules' - i.e. grossly inappropriate use of tools, using other programs (i.e. bbedit or ms word) to modify pln files or to generate terrain models... really OUT THERE kinda stuff... but maybe nobody does that kind of thing here..?

Re: Advanced archicad training?

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Jun 2008 17:18:08 GMT

Don't pay some guy that thinks he knows a lot. You might think he knows a lot just because he's teaching you stuff you never heard of. Archicad is to vast a program for one person to utilize every different technique. The better idea would be to meet up with two or three other archicad users and just bounce ideas off each other. You tell me. One dude standing at the front of a room for two hours rambling on about stuff you already know about, only to get slowed up because one person has to ask a question. For the basics this might be a good idea. Assuming we are all past the basic part, I would honestly think it better to sit down at a desk and discuss actual important, different, and better techniques with other users. No one has to pay because your all contributing to the learning. Better yet, we could have a Youtube community and just post videos of certain techniques. I know a lot of people would disagree. I assure you though it's only because it would hurt their wallet. Graphisoft needs to realize that their future business is in the hands of the students. By not having mounds of information and free training videos they are hurting themselves. I don't know if the situation is better now, but when I started using Archicad there was literally nothing out there to supplement my learning. Well, there was, $80+ an hour does not do me any good. I guess that the internet makes me wonder why anyone would pay for information. College tuition doesn't pay for information. Any web site can teach you to write, learn a language, history, math, physics, chemistry ect ect. So basically your paying for a sheet of paper. We live in a world where movies and music are free. If you wanna make money teaching archicad I suggest creating a site with free information. Let the advertisements bring in the money. Cause if you don't, someone will. I can assure everyone that before anyone buys a book they will stop by a free website first. I guess I'm really tired of this old fashion non-progressive way of business that the archicad community just can't get over. Nobody wants to say anything about it though because deep down everyone wants to potentially make money teaching archicad.

Re: Advanced archicad training?

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Jun 2008 17:47:19 GMT

for example... let's say someone's giving an advanced workshop on pen management, etc.. it's something that I'm simply not going to bother with because I only use three pen (pen numbers, that is), no.1, no.2 and no.3... because, well, it's damned simple, I like it that way and my drawings look fantastic as a result. Sometimes there is power in limiting things. There comes a time when one's tool kit is mostly complete - and it's time to stop wanking and sit down and actually make things. Sorry if that seems a bit gruff or if it's limiting someone's agenda. There's just way too much wanking going on when it comes to computers...! LOL (as they say)

Re: Advanced archicad training?

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Jun 2008 17:51:08 GMT

~/archiben wrote:
JWD wrote:
... insofar as one usually has one's own trajectory at that point.
i guess it all depends on how much you know that you don't know. if you know that you know it all, chance are you don't . . .

I'm absoulutely convinced I know a very limited amount. About archicad too. But what I do know I can really GO PLACES with... know what I mean...? It's workable...! That's what I meant by 'trajectory'... but also very many 'official' techniques taught by many 'archicad gurus yield an inferior result as far as I've seen. I take what I can from it though - and see if it works for me.

Re: Advanced archicad training?

Dwight — Wed, 18 Jun 2008 18:57:59 GMT

Jacob wrote:
everyone wants to potentially make money teaching archicad.

I sympathize with your training frustration. It is true that many people have things to share that they charge for and shouldn't. Buyer beware. On the other hand, we do have the forum and the Wiki for sharing knowledge - not everything needs to be a question answered or a training session bought.

For instance: Perhaps our colleague using just three pens can show here how efficient it is in order to benefit others. Adaptability brings complexity.

The reason for paid training is that most users simply don't have the gumption to figure out software on their own. Furthermore, training is not one day. Training is at least a week of one-on-one to get through even a small frame structure, but at the end of that week, a user should have a reasonable custom template and COMFORT with the application.

Software aptitude is not related to professional skill. The metaphoric world of cyberspace does collide with the sticks and bricks of architectural thinking. So, there is a leap of thinking required to employ BIM and many otherwise fine designers fall down the chasm trying to get the grail.

Another problem is that buying software presumes understanding the tools. Take Photoshop, for instance: all the tools are metaphoric to either graphic designer tools or darkroom tools. Ever used a razor knife or dodged an enlargement? When the Archicad seller says that you can render, it isn't the rendering tools that are confusing but the underlying concepts are. Modeling, publishing, etc - all expand the thinking beyond expectation. Not so much for new users, but established workers with families trying to adopt a new method....

Certainly, arrogant, energetic young guys without too much production pressure can take the time to research and experiment [like i did], but most professionals suffer from knowing that work is waiting for them. Get to it, already.

In 1992, when i started in Archicad, it was all new to me. Computing, CAD, 3D - I was a fifteen year experienced architect and the lateral model planning and data juggling was mesmerizing at first. I enjoyed twelve weekly training sessions - evenings, but those hours were barely enough for the instructor to demonstrate each of the workings of Archicad 4.5 - at that time, a rudimentary application at best.

Then i took two years [a slow period for me] of playing to get some comfort with it, but i was modeling curved, distorted elements for my sculpture practice and using/learning GDL a lot since Archicad didn't have the tools at hand like it does now.

If you want to be a trainer for $80. good for you, but for truly proficient users, actually using Archicad can produce better returns than this without suffering the dissatisfied whining of people lacking the fundamental aptitude to operate the program.

Re: Advanced archicad training?

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Jun 2008 20:46:03 GMT

Dwight wrote:
I sympathize with your training frustration.

If you want to be a trainer for $80. good for you, but for truly proficient users, actually using Archicad can produce better returns than this without suffering the dissatisfied whining of people lacking the fundamental aptitude to operate the program.

The training frustration doesn't exist for me. It exist for new users. Which is why it is so hard to produce new users. I blame it on the fact that the learning materials and techniques are sold to the highest bidder. Making it so that only the biggest firms can afford training. This method only works in a world where all other information isn't free. The fact is that information can easily and inexpensively be distributed. Yet so far, Graphisoft wont acknowledge that. Unless it does, archicad will slowly and surely dissolve from lack of users. Thank god graphisoft wasn't as dumb as autodesk by charging to use the student version. Autodesk makes enough money to take risks though.

Re: Advanced archicad training?

jespizua — Wed, 18 Jun 2008 21:11:15 GMT

Jacob wrote:
Dwight wrote:
I sympathize with your training frustration.

If you want to be a trainer for $80. good for you, but for truly proficient users, actually using Archicad can produce better returns than this without suffering the dissatisfied whining of people lacking the fundamental aptitude to operate the program.
The training frustration doesn't exist for me. It exist for new users. Which is why it is so hard to produce new users. I blame it on the fact that the learning materials and techniques are sold to the highest bidder. Making it so that only the biggest firms can afford training. This method only works in a world where all other information isn't free. The fact is that information can easily and inexpensively distributed. Yet so far, no one wants to acknowledge that. Unless it does, archicad will slowly and surely dissolve from lack of users. Thank god graphisoft wasn't as dumb as autodesk by charging to use the student version. Autodesk makes enough money to take risk though.

Full agree with you, but one note, autodesk's educational license for students are free (not for 3dsmax). I´m using revit 2009 free of charge.