topic Re: Composite Slab Not Working Properly in Modeling

Composite Slab Not Working Properly

Dalius — Fri, 09 Jun 2023 18:40:31 GMT

Hello guys!

Could anyone explain why Archicad doesn't work correctly with composite joins? At first, I thought I was doing something wrong with intersection priorities, but I made this example using default elements.

When the slab is placed on the same level as the top of the wall (in this case as the wall on the lower story), its skins react not individually, but according to the bottom skin of the composite. However, when I raise the slab higher or lower, even 1 mm, all skins react correctly.

Ahhh, this problem has become a big headache 🤯 Is it a regular bug? And how do you deal with it?

The pln file (v26) is attached as well.

Re: Composite Slab Not Working Properly

Botonis — Sun, 11 Jun 2023 17:18:48 GMT

You are right.

When the slabs are at the same upper level with the floor level, for composites, the priorities do not work. This is not happening at the bottom point.

Never came accross this situation though, as my floor leveling is using the core material and not the finish.

I do not know if this a limitation or something on purpose....... or a kind of logic......... I do not feel it is a bug though.

In your case I would offset the upper wall bottom to the core of the slab to create the correct connection. After all, the slab should some how be considered the base of the upper wall.....

Re: Composite Slab Not Working Properly

sayon3d — Sun, 11 Jun 2023 16:02:03 GMT

Hi Dalius,

if this only happens on the ground floor (seems a bug),

draw just the floor and draw a SEPARATE skin and group them, or save that group as a slab object.

That's what I would do, to not lose more time.

Greetings.

Re: Composite Slab Not Working Properly

Botonis — Sun, 11 Jun 2023 17:09:19 GMT

It is really more easy just to extent the base of the wall. On the basis of the real construction this will be the final result.

The level line is just a theoritical level.

Creating additional skins or groups makes things more complicated and deviates from the BIM logic. This is just my opinion.

Re: Composite Slab Not Working Properly

Lingwisyer — Mon, 12 Jun 2023 01:24:35 GMT

I have never come across this situation either as I model to core too, but I feel like this is the intended interaction as it believes the floor is running over the wall below. To get a different interaction, walls would need to know if there was another continuing above it, but that would create a whole lot of complications in itself... I would just settle with offsetting your walls.

Ling.

Re: Composite Slab Not Working Properly

Dalius — Thu, 22 Jun 2023 17:15:13 GMT

Hi Botonis!

Thank you for your response. Then I have another question:

If the wall is lowered to the core of the slab, then the floor-to-ceiling windows must be raised to floor level. However, if the bottom of the windows is higher than the base of the wall, then the zone doesn't count the area of wall recesses.

So how do you deal with it?

The pln file (v26) is attached.

Re: Composite Slab Not Working Properly

Botonis — Fri, 23 Jun 2023 08:51:57 GMT

Ok indeed there is a problem didn't know about it.

This is happening with windows and not doors. Check this

https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Project-data-BIM/Zones-Wall-recesses-to-zones-not-working/m-p/227432

What you can do is create custom profile with a modifier at the bottom and the wall base at the zero point.

When you place the wall set the modifier at the floor thickness and voila!

That way you trick the zone which recognizes the zero point, until Devs fix this......

Re: Composite Slab Not Working Properly

Dalius — Fri, 23 Jun 2023 17:12:14 GMT

Bravo, Botoni! This is a really great idea! 👏

I already tried and it works perfectly. I also added a Height Stretch modifier so that the top of the wall can be tied to the next story level.

By the way, you are quite optimistic saying "until Devs fix this", hehe! 😀

Could I ask where are you from? Botonis sounds Greek, doesn’t it?

Re: Composite Slab Not Working Properly

Botonis — Sun, 25 Jun 2023 12:24:38 GMT

Greek indeed!!

Thanks for you reply. Do not forget to set a proper opening reference line for the custom profile!!!

I remain at your disposal!

Re: Composite Slab Not Working Properly

Dalius — Tue, 27 Jun 2023 20:14:25 GMT

Yassou Botoni,
I tried to apply such walls in my project and faced another problem.

Using walls created as complex profiles, the surface material cannot be changed separately for the outside and inside faces neither in the wall settings nor with the surface painter.

The only way is to override surfaces in the profile itself. However, in this case, I need to duplicate the profile for each surface change, which becomes quite complicated 🙈

Re: Composite Slab Not Working Properly

Botonis — Tue, 27 Jun 2023 21:08:13 GMT

I am not in front of my pc but if you select the fill that you want to be able to override the surface and activate the option in the profile manager panel. This way you will be able to set different surfaces. You can even have overiden surfacefor just one edge of the fill and the painter will work..... if I remember correctly

Although I prefer to have different materials even for surfaces because it affects the appereance of the 3d cutting planes.

Re: Composite Slab Not Working Properly

Lingwisyer — Wed, 28 Jun 2023 01:53:19 GMT

I believe they are talking about having multiple instances of the wall with different Surface Overrides. Since you cannot use the standard inside outside overrides in complex profiles, this would result in needing multiple duplicate profiles. There was talk in one thread about being able to define inside, outside and edge in CPs so that the standard Surface Overrides would work a few months ago, but I am unsure if that became a wish.

Re: Composite Slab Not Working Properly

Botonis — Wed, 28 Jun 2023 13:25:03 GMT

There is propbably one more workaround if you want to have just one custom profile with the ability to be able to change the surface colour and this is to use multiple fills (on top of the other) for the same external layer. Take a look at the picture where I have two walls of the SAME custom profile

The profile has two different fills with red and blue colour with a thickness modifier for each one.

I set a thickness for the one I want "activate" and 0 for the one deactivated. You can have as many fills as you want for both external and internal layers.

Once you create the profile it is really easy to change the colour surface....

What do you think??

Re: Composite Slab Not Working Properly

Dalius — Wed, 28 Jun 2023 22:29:47 GMT

@Botonis wrote:
Once you create the profile it is really easy to change the colour surface....
What do you think??

Well, I tried your method, but I can't say that it's easy to change the surface color of Complex Profile. Yes, it's possible, but not that easy. Unfortunately, the surface painter doesn't work here 😞

One more thing – I can't find a possibility to label the Complex Profile surfaces in the floor plan or 3D document, which is very important for interior projects.

The pln file (v26) is attached.

Re: Composite Slab Not Working Properly

Botonis — Thu, 29 Jun 2023 21:37:19 GMT

Maybe you should try this label by Jorge of wearenzyme..... Great stuff.

https://www.weareenzyme.com/shop-detail?recordId=recVvuyAE2rl9mxuO