topic Re: Foundation walls extending beyond reference line in Modeling

Foundation walls extending beyond reference line

MikeC — Wed, 15 Nov 2023 16:33:34 GMT

Hi all,

My foundation walls are extending beyond the reference lines all around the house. I've used Intersect with no effect. See images. What am I missing?

Thanks,

Mike

Re: Foundation walls extending beyond reference line

Mahmoud Qenawi — Wed, 15 Nov 2023 17:05:37 GMT

Are walls & foundations on the same layer?

If so put wals on different layer with a different intersection group number.

Re: Foundation walls extending beyond reference line

RandyC — Wed, 15 Nov 2023 17:43:25 GMT

That little bit hanging out is usually from the foundation walls being slightly higher and conflicting

with the framed wall over. check the foundation wall height and drop it slightly.

Re: Foundation walls extending beyond reference line

MikeC — Wed, 15 Nov 2023 18:11:07 GMT

They are on difference layers. But, I kind of want them to intersect: the exterior cladding should extend below the top of the foundation, while the framing sits on top of the foundation and sill plate.

Re: Foundation walls extending beyond reference line

MikeC — Wed, 15 Nov 2023 18:12:29 GMT

I kind of want them to intersect: the exterior cladding should extend below the top of the foundation, while the framing sits on top of the foundation and sill plate. Is there a better way or correct way to do this?

Mike

Re: Foundation walls extending beyond reference line

RandyC — Wed, 15 Nov 2023 18:55:48 GMT

Unfortunatly this is a limitation of Archicad - try lowering them all an inch to verify this is the problem

I have never found a way around this yet................................................

Re: Foundation walls extending beyond reference line

Karl Ottenstein — Wed, 15 Nov 2023 19:10:15 GMT

They can't intersect in real life, right? Two objects in the same space at the same time is more Doctor Who... 🙂

What I think you mean and want is for the cladding to extend below the wall plate and cover part of the foundation wall. That is exactly what complex profiled walls are designed to do... provide you with that cladding extension, but with nothing occupying the same physical space (which is what typically gives the result you show... as @RandyC pointed out.). If you have not explored complex profiles yet, they will open new worlds for you. All without a Tardis. 🙂

Re: Foundation walls extending beyond reference line

RandyC — Wed, 15 Nov 2023 19:20:29 GMT

A solution might be to buid a small (bottom plate) profile with a beam and place

it at the correct height - (This could include flashing, sill plate gasket etc. )

I dont think there is a reaction between the beam- wall heights

like there is with the wall-wall heights.

Re: Foundation walls extending beyond reference line

Mahmoud Qenawi — Wed, 15 Nov 2023 20:37:40 GMT

Taking from @Karl Ottenstein & @RandyCthoughrs,
You can create foundation and sill plate as one complex profiled beam.

It shouldn't intersect with the brick wall or the Cladding.

Re: Foundation walls extending beyond reference line

RandyC — Wed, 15 Nov 2023 22:31:14 GMT

Unfortunately in real life the flashing or other components are lower than the bottom plate

I have tried it adding to the foundation wall but the more complicated the profile the slower the computer gets.

this is why a simpler beam profile might work better. If we could assign building materials to profiles then

we could show the hidden items by increasing the strength of the profile.

Re: Foundation walls extending beyond reference line

Karl Ottenstein — Thu, 16 Nov 2023 00:02:39 GMT

No need for beams at all. Your frame wall just really needs to NOT be a composite wall, but a complex profiled wall. You can 'capture the composite fills in the profile editor, and then extend the flashing and the siding down below the 0-base (profile editor origin) level. Just standard modeling... gives perfect sections, views, and not conflicts. You draw the wall plate as fills inside the profile editor. Don't create a profiled beam for the plate and flashing... as once again, you have objects occupying the same physical space. It's possible here, but not worth other issues that will arise.

I think these product Help links might be useful?

https://help.graphisoft.com/AC/27/INT/index.htm?rhcsh=1&rhnewwnd=0&rhmapid=#t=_AC27_Help%2F040_ElementsVB%2F040_ElementsVB-55.htm&rhsearch=complex%20profile&rhsyns=%20

https://help.graphisoft.com/AC/27/INT/_AC27_Help/040_ElementsVB/040_ElementsVB-57.htm#XREF_72962_Create_Complex

https://help.graphisoft.com/AC/27/INT/_AC27_Help/025_Attributes/025_Attributes-54.htm#XREF_36429_Define_New_Profile

Re: Foundation walls extending beyond reference line

MikeC — Thu, 16 Nov 2023 01:17:27 GMT

@Karl Ottenstein thanks for the suggestion. I tried your suggestion, but as soon as I pull the exterior cladding in the complex wall down past the top of the foundation wall - beside the foundation wall, no overlapping, the foundation wall gets sucked through the cladding as previously shown. I have tried redrawing everything and still the same.

So I tried creating the walls again - two foundations, two complex walls at a corner. This time the opposite happened...

Except this time the sticking out part is way beyond any of the other walls. I've obviously messed something up.

Mike

Re: Foundation walls extending beyond reference line

Lingwisyer — Fri, 17 Nov 2023 01:18:06 GMT

No matter what type of wall you use, you will encounter what you see if you have intersecting reference lines for walls in plan and that intersect in 3D space. It can sometimes be resolved by changing the ~~Intersection Priority~~ Junction Order of the relevant walls.

Ling.

Edit: Used the wrong term...

Re: Foundation walls extending beyond reference line

MikeC — Thu, 16 Nov 2023 17:01:17 GMT

@Lingwisyer Wow, this seems to be the problem. If I move the walls relative to each other, the only time I can see this weird behaviour is when the reference lines are coincident in plan.

Are you referring to the Building Material Intersection Priority? None of the materials in these walls has the same priority.

Thanks,

Mike

Re: Foundation walls extending beyond reference line

Lingwisyer — Fri, 17 Nov 2023 01:16:12 GMT

Woops. Just checked, wrong wording... Junction Order.

Ling.

Re: Foundation walls extending beyond reference line

bvd — Tue, 21 May 2024 05:42:22 GMT

I also have issues with junctions, stud wall against brick. different material. Different junction priority, and for some reason it wants to kick the bricks into the stud wall, and put a line break in the break wall. Image A and B show the reference lines & result.

Image 3 is the solution however it is annoying to flip things back and forth, I like the reference lines to be consistency across the model. Finding I have to occasionally change them & junction priority is having little to no effect. Will do some more research but feels illogical

Re: Foundation walls extending beyond reference line

Lingwisyer — Tue, 21 May 2024 07:19:45 GMT

AC cannot handle butting intersections like this as it will see that the Reference Line of your brick wall interects with your stud wall and hence will make a Priority Base Intersection.Your only options, if you cannot put them in different Intersection Groups, are to move them apart is some way, whether this be by referencing inside vs outside as you have done, using a reference offset, or creating a marginal gap.

Re: Foundation walls extending beyond reference line

bvd — Tue, 21 May 2024 07:25:03 GMT

Interesting, I was unaware of Intersection Groups & will give that a go as a preferred method, as I would rather not change the reference line and would never create a marginal gap.

Thanks for your help & suggestions