topic Re: composite wall: interrupting wall finish after certain height in Modeling

composite wall: interrupting wall finish after certain height

HelenE — Mon, 15 Jan 2024 02:39:32 GMT

Hello everyone!

I need some help in modelling some composite walls. As you can see from the attached picture, I would like for the tiles of this composite wall to stop at the level of the suspended ceiling but I need the wall's core to continue until the concrete slab. Is there a way I can model this so that when I prepare the schedules to calculate the area of tiles required the total will be correct? Is there a way to this quickly (without creating a complex profile because we would have to redo many walls that are already modelled)?

Re: composite wall: interrupting wall finish after certain height

Mahmoud Qenawi — Fri, 12 Jan 2024 22:24:57 GMT

Hello @HelenE,

I think the right way to do this is complex profiled wall but as a workaround you can adjust the composite wall height to the ceiling bottom and duplicate this composite wall vertically to be placed in the gap between the ceiling and the structural slab.

For achieving the desired result you can duplicate the composite itself while deleting the two tiling skins and keep only the core one,

Also take care to adjust the reference line location in the two composites to be identical (core outside or inside) so when you apply the duplicated composite to the above wall it will be on the same location as the core bottom.

To change the refrence line location of the composite wall without moving the wall you can use this reference:

https://help.graphisoft.com/AC/27/INT/index.htm?rhcsh=1&rhnewwnd=0&rhmapid=#t=_AC27_Help%2F040_ElementsVB%2F040_ElementsVB-19.htm&rhsearch=Modify%20reference%20line&rhsyns=%20&rhhlterm=Modify%20reference%20line

Re: composite wall: interrupting wall finish after certain height

hevi — Sat, 13 Jan 2024 00:03:24 GMT

One approach is to create a 'plenum' building material that has a intersection priority lower than the core but higher than the finish and model it for spaces with suspended ceiling and the scheduled exposed area of the finish will be correct. No need to touch the already modelled walls and quite easy to handle - just sort the priorities and make sure that the intersection group is correct in view for the schedule and modell correctly (partial structure display helps).

Re: composite wall: interrupting wall finish after certain height

Mahmoud Qenawi — Sat, 13 Jan 2024 00:47:00 GMT

If you like to replace composite walls with complex profiled ones without remodeling or adjusting positions you can.

Use F&S to select the desired walls by the appropriate criteria set then save it for recalling later and define the exact location of reference line.

If you have different locations for composite walls reference lines you can modify them as the link above.

Draw your complex profile fills and set the origin point at the same reference line location for the composite walls then adjust the height of all skins as you like and add modifiers if needed.

Select the desired walls by recalling the saved criteria set from F&S then change them from info box to be profiled walls with few clicks and I'm sure they will be positioned correctly.

Re: composite wall: interrupting wall finish after certain height

Barry Kelly — Sat, 13 Jan 2024 11:41:50 GMT

If your ceiling was a part of the floor slab composite, you could possibly get it to work with building material strengths as others may have mentioned.

But it may not be practical to have the ceiling as part of the slab composite.

So you either need 2 walls stacked on top of each other.

One up to ceiling height and then another on top from ceiling to slab.

Some will use a separate storey for this upper wall, I would just use layers.

Or you create a composite wall with tile/plaster skins only up to ceiling height.

If your ceiling height varies, you can even add height modifiers to the tile/plaster skins of the complex profile, so they can be adjusted to suit particular ceiling heights.

The heights can even be adjusted to allow for the lower slab floor finishes.

And you can stretch the height of the tile/plaster skins to zero height for those walls that do not have tiles and/or plaster.

Barry.

Re: composite wall: interrupting wall finish after certain height

Mahmoud Qenawi — Sat, 13 Jan 2024 11:13:18 GMT

Hi @Barry Kelly,

You say (If your ceiling height varies, you can even add height modifiers to the tile/plaster skins of the composite).

I suppose you mean modifiers for a complex profile wall or you really mean modifiers for a composite wall? How could you do that?

Re: composite wall: interrupting wall finish after certain height

Barry Kelly — Sat, 13 Jan 2024 11:41:17 GMT

Sorry, I meant complex profile wall.

Barry.

Re: composite wall: interrupting wall finish after certain height

HelenE — Mon, 15 Jan 2024 07:52:18 GMT

Thank you all for taking the time to reply to me! I will study these options and get back to you.

Re: composite wall: interrupting wall finish after certain height

Ahmed_K — Mon, 15 Jan 2024 09:13:26 GMT

Avoid complex profiles as much as you can, beacause of performance issues, also, 2D representation of skins and reveals won't be an easy task,

You can simply go with acompisite slab that have an air skin, and a gypsum skin,

The air skin material should be stronger then the wall finish material,

This way, when you want to not to apply a ceiling to that space, you simply delete the slab, and the wall finish skin would go up automatically

Re: composite wall: interrupting wall finish after certain height

Barry Kelly — Mon, 15 Jan 2024 09:57:05 GMT

Rather than having a slab composite and a separate air space/gypsum composite and placing 2 slabs, I just create two slab composites.

One with the slab / airspace & gypsum skins, and one with just the slab (no ceiling).

That way I can just swap the slab for whatever I want.

I then create duplicates of the slab with ceiling if I need the ceiling at different heights.

Barry.

Re: composite wall: interrupting wall finish after certain height

HelenE — Thu, 18 Jan 2024 14:39:05 GMT

I just wanted to thank everyone for answering my question. We will most probably go with the 'plenum' building material idea. I appreciate everyone's contribution!

Re: composite wall: interrupting wall finish after certain height

Mahmoud Qenawi — Thu, 18 Jan 2024 14:55:05 GMT

Glad you find the best solution for this case.

I also like the idea of plenum BM, thanks to all.