topic Re: Wall Accessory Goodie or Badie ? in Modeling

Wall Accessory Goodie or Badie ?

mthd — Sat, 09 Mar 2024 03:51:11 GMT

Hi to all timber wall framing users of AC. Has anyone been able to explode the wall framing object that creates the framing for a wall ? I need to display noggins or blocking mid way up the wall and to make many other edits that are not available in the parameters list. Also to edit the number of plates to top and bottom. To cut back to single header and it not auto default back to 90mm thickness.

I am not GDL minded so I don’t think I need to be in order to use AC down to a finer level of detail.

This accessory could be updated to allow for blocking, insulation, bracing and other necessary things for it to be useable on a structural level (Including tie down bolts and framing brackets etc).

Please also make it explodable so we can edit all framing members as we wish, for all our custom wall framing needs.

Edit: Please see this post about the same tool for more information about what could be done to improve it for us all.

https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Modeling/Wall-framing-accessory-question/td-p/319759

Operating system used: Mac Apple Silicon Ventura

Re: Wall Accessory Goodie or Badie ?

Steve Jepson — Tue, 12 Mar 2024 18:13:17 GMT

Useless Badie 🙂 It is more efficient to modeling the framing with *pre-modeled assemblies* that are easily adjusted per unique situations. Its very easy to copy an assembly of header, trimmer, cripples, blocking.... form one project to another and adjust it for a new opening size. And you can do that faster than you can configure the Wall Accessory Tool - which will never be exactly what you want.

The same idea applies to just about everything you do with ArchiCAD. Copy, Paste, Tweak... is almost always going to be more efficient than configuring Tools from scratch and never getting exactly what you want.

However, I should add that in my experience, exact quantities of framing lumber are very seldom more useful than approximations based on Estimating Formulas.

Re: Wall Accessory Goodie or Badie ?

mthd — Tue, 12 Mar 2024 02:03:55 GMT

I suppose once you have set up your custom framing members with a template then start copying them around, then you would eventually save some time. (I have seen what they do at Contrabim)

Bear in mind that ArchiFrame has the ability to do all this and more in an automated way. Software is supposed to save us time and shouldn’t we let the program do the generic repetitive tasks for us ? After all isn’t it AI’s job to do some of that for us ?

The cost of ArchiFrame is supposed to be the same as a second license of AC. I think GS want us to use that instead of the old wall accessory goodie and that is probably why it hasn’t had the scripting updated. Good for those who can write GDL script.

Re: Wall Accessory Goodie or Badie ?

Karl Ottenstein — Tue, 12 Mar 2024 02:13:15 GMT

I can't tell if this is a question (right forum) or a wish (should be in wishes forum - but infinitesimal chance of being granted).

The Wall Accessory Goodie is a "Goodie" download because it is unsupported. In fact, it has received zero functional updates in about 24 years. It cannot do spanning headers, different sized headers based on load, or any of the other things one would want for real framing. It gives the illusion of framing only.

The entire wall framing object is a single object. You could convert it to Morphs and edit it further that way (at which point it is no longer dynamically associated with the wall)... but it would be a painfully slow editing process after that.

As Steve said, it is more efficient and accurate to model the framing yourself... and re-use it in subsequent walls and projects.

Re: Wall Accessory Goodie or Badie ?

mthd — Tue, 12 Mar 2024 02:49:54 GMT

Thanks Karl, I didn’t know about being able to convert it to morphs but that would certainly help in the process. I can easily add some elements around the morphs and delete the members that I no longer needed to use. The only problem then is creating a pricing list for those individual members.

Would be nice if in the future we could convert the morph geometry into a beam or a column etc ?

Re: Wall Accessory Goodie or Badie ?

SenecaDesignLLC — Tue, 12 Mar 2024 06:04:50 GMT

I rewrote the wall framing to do all of these things. As well as generate the data for quantity listing, I'm still working on the user interface but maybe it will be ready in the summer lol

Re: Wall Accessory Goodie or Badie ?

mthd — Tue, 12 Mar 2024 06:14:47 GMT

Hi @SenecaDesignLLC, I saw that you had done some GDL work with the tool in the other post. That’s really cool that you can do that to generate realistic framing and quantity listing as well. I look forward to seeing what you have been able to do to improve it’s operation and use.

Re: Wall Accessory Goodie or Badie ?

Karl Ottenstein — Tue, 12 Mar 2024 14:55:56 GMT

@mthd wrote:

Would be nice if in the future we could convert the morph geometry into a beam or a column etc ?

Wished for 12 years ago here:

https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Wishes/Convert-Morph-to-each-elements/m-p/203836

and

https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Wishes/Convert-morph-faces-to-walls-slabs-roofs-curtain-walls-shell/m-p/171194

Re: Wall Accessory Goodie or Badie ?

mthd — Wed, 13 Mar 2024 01:18:19 GMT

I knew that wishes had been made regarding reversing the morph back to its original element. Must be a very difficult thing to do because the geometry of a morph is very different to regular elements. GS probably would have implemented it by now of it was feasibly possible ? The point is that morphed elements need to be kept track of so they can be reported to a BOQ (In the correct category or location) without it being lost somewhere in the project.

Re: Wall Accessory Goodie or Badie ?

Barry Kelly — Wed, 13 Mar 2024 02:08:56 GMT

@mthd wrote:

The point is that morphed elements need to be kept track of so they can be reported to a BOQ (In the correct category or location) without it being lost somewhere in the project.

You can classify your morph as a beam, or a column or a framing stud or what ever you want.

This will allow you to include it in a framing schedule, but the problem then is, that a morph has different geometry to a beam or column.

i.e. a morph does not have a length like a beam does, or a width or a height.

So although you can tell your morph that is is indeed a beam or column, you may not be able to get the same data from it as a beam or a column.

You will only be able to get 'morph' related values - area in plan, volume, material, etc.

And you are correct.

There is no easy way to convert a morph back into a beam or column, which is why it has not been done.

Barry.

Re: Wall Accessory Goodie or Badie ?

mthd — Wed, 13 Mar 2024 03:33:02 GMT

@Barry Kelly @Wrote:

“You can classify your morph as a beam, or a column or a framing stud or what ever you want.

This will allow you to include it in a framing schedule, but the problem then is, that a morph has different geometry to a beam or column.”

That’s good that we can schedule it in a framing schedule. That schedule wouldn’t be automatically generated in AC, I would have to create a custom one for my framing members ?

Edited: I found something that might help my cause, if I am able to find a CI tools select library wall framing part #2013. See this tip and trick from Central Innovations.

https://centralinnovation.com/technical-resources/tips-and-tricks/schedule-timber-wall-framing-easily/

Re: Wall Accessory Goodie or Badie ?

Barry Kelly — Wed, 13 Mar 2024 03:49:12 GMT

Yes you have to create your schedule and tell it what criteria you want to find and what fields (values) you want to output.

But as you can see here, morphs do not have lengths, heights and widths.

The only thing that is common would be surface material or building material.

And maybe you could to a sum with total for the element IDs to get a count.

So, I probably should not have mentioned the classification, as you really can't get much useful information from it.

Barry.

Re: Wall Accessory Goodie or Badie ?

mthd — Wed, 13 Mar 2024 08:17:49 GMT

Hey Barry, thank you for the help on how to go about scheduling timber framing quantities. Always appreciate your expert help as you definitely know how to use AC correctly.

The framing object from CI tools #2013 was in my select library and it is definitely more useful than the goodies Wall Accessory tool. There is even the start of a QTO (Quantity Take Off) schedule in the Australian template that I can expand and build upon.

Since I have Chief Architect X10 as well and I am more familiar with that than Archicad, I will use that for my estimating of all building materials. By the time I model up a relatively simple residential building in CAX10 I can more easily build framing and extract quantities more quickly in that application. That’s not to say that a native AC user who has much experience can probably do it in a similar time frame.

I think @SenecaDesignLLC, would be able to do it just as fast like you and many other experienced users can.

Still, I must learn the AC method as well because when the building becomes more complex, then AC will come into its own.