topic Re: Clean Wall & Beam Intersections stopped working in Modeling

Clean Wall & Beam Intersections stopped working

Ignacio Azpiazu — Sun, 28 Apr 2024 23:40:23 GMT

On a pln on 27 AUS 5003, MacOS 13.6.6. on M1 Max, at some point Clean Wall & Beam Intersections stopped working. On a backup file from a few hours earlier things work fine, when opening both files at the same time on different sessions on the same computer.

Restart changed nothing, neither did Open & Repair.

Relative to the slightly older file, the actions I remember were bringing in some PDF into worksheets, modifying the elevation to sea level, elevating a slab, running Intersections in Layer Combinations (not sure if I did this before or after, as a reflex action when coming across some intersection issue). Owerwriting (restoring) layer combinations with those of the previous file through Attribute Manager changed nothing.

First time I remember seeing this.

Video at https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/blzr8m6v472ar6fgi27wh/no-cleaning-high.mp4?rlkey=ptdlfdv1ja312sx8z6rdosd0p&dl=0

Operating system used: Mac Apple Silicon 13.6.6

Re: Clean Wall & Beam Intersections stopped working

Barry Kelly — Mon, 29 Apr 2024 00:49:38 GMT

Assuming all of those walls are in the same layer, what is the Intersection Group number for that layer?

Barry.

Re: Clean Wall & Beam Intersections stopped working

Ignacio Azpiazu — Mon, 29 Apr 2024 02:00:28 GMT

It happens in all layer combinations. When visible, 1, in all combinations in both files (I always stick to the results of Intersections in Layer Combinations, don't mess with that). The problem appeared simultaneously in all walls on any layer, and beams on their layer, in all cases 1 when visible. My first thought was that I had inadvertently hit a new shortcut in 27, but “On Screen… > Clean…” has no shortcut.

I just copied a couple of walls from the new problem file to the old file, and they clean up all right there; from the good old file to the new problem file, and they don't.

This is a very simple model on an initial phase. Just straightforward walls, there are no duplicates nor overlapping walls, and in any case they are the same walls in both files.

Re: Clean Wall & Beam Intersections stopped working

Barry Kelly — Mon, 29 Apr 2024 02:34:02 GMT

This is strange.

It is possible for the layer combinations to have the correct Intersection Group numbers, but still have it set to zero in the actual layer.

But this will fix as soon as you choose a layer combination.

Other than 'Clean wall & beam intersection', or the layer intersection group number, I can't think what else would stop the clean up.

Barry.

Re: Clean Wall & Beam Intersections stopped working

Ignacio Azpiazu — Mon, 29 Apr 2024 12:26:10 GMT

Layers are 1 when visible, in all layer combinations. (That is what Intersections in Layer Combination does; visible 1, invisible 2.)

Re: Clean Wall & Beam Intersections stopped working

Dmitriy L — Mon, 29 Apr 2024 21:31:27 GMT

Hi, I've run into the exact same issue. Toggling "Clean Wall & Beam Intersections" doesn't appear to do anything. My last actions were creating complex profiles. I don't have a backup to return to unfortunately. It's a relatively new file so I might be able to copy across to a new file.

Would appreciate any ideas or fixes.

Thank you,

Dmitriy

Edit:

A quick update - I've restarted my machine, started a new file, and turned on all layers in my broken file to start copying things across to a new file. I'd copied across one storey when I noticed the original file had fixed itself. I don't know what I triggered, or where.

Perhaps it was something to do with intersection group numbers - but the issue was affecting walls on the same layer. Maybe having a second copy of AC running had something to do with it. I did toggle "Clean Wall & Beam Intersections" in the new file to check it was working ok there (it was). Maybe that helped? I'm afraid I can only speculate.

AC27 5003 AUS FULL

Hardware:

HP ZBook Studio G7

Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-10885H CPU @ 2.40GHz 2.40 GHz

Re: Clean Wall & Beam Intersections stopped working

Ignacio Azpiazu — Tue, 30 Apr 2024 00:58:58 GMT

On my video some confusion is evident also on the part of Archicad between “Clean Wall & Beam Intersections…” and “Wall & Beam Reference Lines”. I would guess related symptom, because I don’t think I had seen this in 20+ years either.

[Actually, that may be how the problem started: I opened the file to find it with reference lines off (I absolutely never have them off), turned them on, and misery ensued.]

Re: Clean Wall & Beam Intersections stopped working

Barry Kelly — Tue, 30 Apr 2024 00:59:26 GMT

@Ignacio Azpiazu wrote:

Layers are 1 when visible, in all layer combinations. (That is what Intersections in Layer Combination does; visible 1, invisible 2.)

The layer combination may be showing 1, but the actual layer may be set to zero (custom layer combination).

If zero, then there will be no trimming in that layer, regardless of what the layer combination shows.

But as soon as you activate a new layer combination, it should reset.

I don't think this is your issue, but just wanted to point out a layer can be set to 0 when it is not set that way in the combination.

1 & 2 does not mean visible or invisible.

All layers set to 1 will trim with each other.

All layers set to 2 will trim with each other.

Even if the layers are turned off, they will still trim with other layers with the same intersection group number.

Elements in layers set as 1 will not trim with elements in layers set as 2.

Barry.

Re: Clean Wall & Beam Intersections stopped working

Barry Kelly — Tue, 30 Apr 2024 01:02:44 GMT

In the back of my head I can recall that this problem has occurred before, but not the solution.

Maybe the complete machine restart is it?

No harm in trying.

Barry.

Re: Clean Wall & Beam Intersections stopped working

Ignacio Azpiazu — Tue, 30 Apr 2024 01:04:44 GMT

Complete restart is the first thing I did.

Re: Clean Wall & Beam Intersections stopped working

Ignacio Azpiazu — Tue, 30 Apr 2024 01:16:01 GMT

1 & 2 does not mean visible or invisible.

All layers set to 1 will trim with each other.

All layers set to 2 will trim with each other.

Even if the layers are turned off, they will still trim with other layers with the same intersection group number.

Barry, I was explaining what Options > Intersections in Layer Combination does. It turns for each layer combination all visible layers to 1, all invisible layers to 2. So that you will never have intersections with elements in invisible layers. And you just run that whenever you change some combination, or whenever you take a 5 second break, and you will never again need to worry about Groups and intersections with elements in invisible layers.

Re: Clean Wall & Beam Intersections stopped working

Barry Kelly — Tue, 30 Apr 2024 01:11:42 GMT

Turning Clean Wall & Beam Intersections off will turn Wall & Beam Reference Lines on automatically.

It is then possible to control the Wall & Beam Reference Lines separately.

Turning Clean Wall & Beam Intersections on will always turn Wall & Beam Reference Lines off automatically.

Again it is then possible to control the Wall & Beam Reference Lines separately.

Barry.

Re: Clean Wall & Beam Intersections stopped working

Barry Kelly — Tue, 30 Apr 2024 01:22:41 GMT

@Ignacio Azpiazu wrote:

I was explaining what Options > Intersections in Layer Combination does.

Yes sorry, I see that now.

A quick way to ensure that the hidden layers do not trim with those that show.

But you may still need to refine all those visible layers, as you may not want them all to interact with each other.

And there may be times when you do want a hidden layer to still show the trimming effect - i.e. beam and column in 3D when you want to turn the beam layer off and still show how it affects the column.

So, I would say it is a 'quick and dirty' fix, but you may still need to refine the results further.

Barry.

Re: Clean Wall & Beam Intersections stopped working

Barry Kelly — Tue, 30 Apr 2024 01:28:41 GMT

Something you do might trigger it to work correctly again, as Dmitriy found, but what that might be seems to be anyone's guess.

I think this is a file I would be contacting your local support about if you have a support agreement.

Or just out of interest, do you have access to another computer that you can open it on?

Does the same problem occur on that machine?

If not, save it there and then re-open on your machine.

Barry.

Re: Clean Wall & Beam Intersections stopped working

Ignacio Azpiazu — Thu, 02 May 2024 04:54:24 GMT

For the record:

- opening the file on some other computer (an Intel Mac instead of Max), and on some other AC27 version (INT instead of AUS) on both computers, had no effect;

- so I went nuclear, saved down to 26, opened in 26 and everything worked, opened that file with migration in 27 and everything works.

Because the file has quite a few worksheets with DWGs and PDFs and exploded PDFs aligned for trace-reference, and a relatively simple model with basic tools and objects, no MEP yet, I think I lost nothing, and saved myself a few hours of redoing work without any certainty of not going to lose it again after a while.