topic Re: Why does it take hours to try and do a SIMPLE handrail etc. in Modeling

Why does it take hours to try and do a SIMPLE handrail etc.

CPGQ — Thu, 09 May 2024 01:28:14 GMT

I want a wall mounted handrail, with brackets. 2 hours later, I give up. I am going to do it in SketchUp and import. Pathetic.

A 40mm diameter linear handrail along a wall with 90 degree wall mounted brackets. 200,000,000,000 settings, no idea what they are doing, no result after 2 hours. Each added item results in different materials?

In Archicad, I managed to finally get A railing, with a 150mm overhang (no idea where this is turned off) and floating brackets not connected to the wall. I am not going to embarrass my practice issuing this drawing.

This is not acceptable.

Vectorworks does this in its sleep.

2 minutes in Sketchup, job done. WHY Graphisoft? Please explain.

These simple tasks seem impossible with this incomprehensible clunky railing tool.

I used 3DMD railing tool in the past (I think it's dead now). It worked. It was easy to understand. It was VERY powerful. Why can't ArchiCAd just buy this and develop further? Look at the interface they offer compared to the mess Graphisoft offer.

Why do Archicad insist on pushing this mess onto premium paying customers? Archicad is not cheap.

The stairs tool is also crap. 5,000,000,000 settings but incomprehensible and impossible to get desired results.

I want a simple dog leg winder stairs... impossible without actually getting the calculator out and drafting it first, then tracing the drafting lines.

This is getting tiresome. The energy wasted doing trivial tasks are distracting enormously from the design process, where my energy is now being spent trying to work around limitations rather than innovate.

Operating system used: Mac Apple Silicon

Re: Why does it take hours to try and do a SIMPLE handrail etc.

Lingwisyer — Thu, 09 May 2024 01:30:59 GMT

You need to use a Handrail to get wall fixings.

Materials, there is a similar dialogue for each component... There is a wish around for this to be consolidated rather than being across a half dozen different dialogues...

Overhangs

Re: Why does it take hours to try and do a SIMPLE handrail etc.

mthd — Thu, 09 May 2024 01:19:42 GMT

Hello @CPGQ, you can use the pre made ones already in the library and modify them accordingly. I agree that some things do take quite a bit of time to create and other software may do some things more efficiently. I know that if I used SU to model railing it would take me even longer than in AC. Never tried it in VW but I have seen some videos and the latest fence tool looks good.

Re: Why does it take hours to try and do a SIMPLE handrail etc.

Barry Kelly — Thu, 09 May 2024 02:04:59 GMT

@Lingwisyer wrote:

You need to use a Handrail to get wall fixings.

This is correct.

I have also found that you also need to have the main end posts and the internal post turned on to get those fixings to appear.

That is a bit of a problem when you want to fix to a wall and don't want the posts.

Maybe I am doing something wrong when it comes to this?

You can't set the posts to 'None' as the fixing will not show.

You can't make the post invisible by adjusting the height of width to zero.

You can hide the post in the wall.

My solution was to create a post that is actually not there at all - no 3D.

Object is attached - just add it to your office or embedded library.

Then set the posts to the spacings you want the fixings to appear, and use this 'empty' post.

EDIT: OK ignore this.

I will leave the attached invisible post, but you do not need to do this.

See MitchD's reply.

Barry.

Re: Why does it take hours to try and do a SIMPLE handrail etc.

MitchD — Sat, 11 May 2024 11:25:28 GMT

I think you've got 'distribute by posts' set, the other two options should resolve it.

Re: Why does it take hours to try and do a SIMPLE handrail etc.

Barry Kelly — Thu, 09 May 2024 02:02:12 GMT

Yes of course, thank you.

I thought it must be possible.

There really are so many options to explore!

Barry.

Re: Why does it take hours to try and do a SIMPLE handrail etc.

Lingwisyer — Thu, 09 May 2024 03:43:41 GMT

Thinking about post fixings, have they fixed the corner offsets being independant from the inner post spacings yet?

Re: Why does it take hours to try and do a SIMPLE handrail etc.

ryejuan — Thu, 09 May 2024 03:50:30 GMT

I understand where you are coming from that it easy to just model it directly and be done with it but Graphisoft also thought hard how the logic would work in each tool they develop its just a matter of trying to understand all the settings with the railing tool and yes some of them not perfect but still I have encountered most of the things you wrote about and I took time to really explore and see all the settings within the railing tool once you understand it you will find it also useful. 😉

Re: Why does it take hours to try and do a SIMPLE handrail etc.

torben_wadlinger — Thu, 09 May 2024 07:30:50 GMT

The handrail tool, like many other tools in Archicad, has the same problem: modal dialogue windows. This makes it easy for the programmers, but for us users it is hell. CPGQ is therefore absolutely right - how can it be that professional software at this price forces us to waste hours on simple tasks. That's why Sketchup is the tool I use for everything that is even remotely too complex to model in Archicad.

The Morph tool alone is the best example of how not to do it. This tool is practically unusable! I don't know how something like this manages to pass through internal review processes.

Re: Why does it take hours to try and do a SIMPLE handrail etc.

mthd — Thu, 09 May 2024 08:22:02 GMT

You know that if you are proficient user of SU then it can make good sense to model things in it. Morphing is not as straightforward as SU but it is native to AC so you have to weigh up the pros and cons of learning and using it. I personally do not use SU but have tried a few times but I would rather learn to use the native CAD software first for buildings. Using a software can be like learning a new language and once you can think in that language it becomes much easier to use.

Re: Why does it take hours to try and do a SIMPLE handrail etc.

CPGQ — Thu, 09 May 2024 18:34:12 GMT

This is the railing tool we should have, this is included by Graphisoft in the Italian version;

http://www.3dmediadesign.it/objects.html

Whereas this took hours of effort and frustration;

Made of roofs, slabs, hidden cutting slabs etc.

All of this is out of the box with the 3DMD tool.

I'm going to download it again to see if it works. It's only $20 per tool. I used a trial of it years ago, then went to Vectorworks and now I'm back to ArchiCAD.

Re: Why does it take hours to try and do a SIMPLE handrail etc.

CPGQ — Thu, 09 May 2024 18:35:56 GMT

Thanks for that.

Obvious now that you say it. I used a Topsail instead of a Handrail, but 99% of the time, the top rail is the handrail, so this is not intuitive.

Re: Why does it take hours to try and do a SIMPLE handrail etc.

CPGQ — Thu, 09 May 2024 18:39:19 GMT

Yep.

The site modelling tools are light years ahead of ArchiCad, but overall I prefer ArchiCad, once you get in the zone.

Vectorworks also suffers from the "too many options" but buried problem. The saving grace is its superior method of doing favourites, and being able to grab bits from other project files with ease. I cut and paste a lot of my stuff in ArchiCad from one project to the next.

Need to do some catchup with the great Eric Borrow and some of his wonderful tutorials.

Re: Why does it take hours to try and do a SIMPLE handrail etc.

Patrick M — Thu, 09 May 2024 20:19:02 GMT

some of the more complex tools (railings, stairs, curtain walls) have been developed as a one trick pony. Its a single tool that tries to cover most possible configurations. As such, it is tedious and tiresome to use these tools for anything you haven't already built favorites for.
I typically only use these tools when "good enough" is my goal, or when I have the time to dedicate to building them out for multiple future applications as favorites.

I almost always skip these tools all together and just use slabs, beams, columns roofs, meshes, morphs, etc.; unless it is something I know I have a favorite already built for. I think you probably could have built what you are describing with beams in 2-3 minutes, rather than using sketchup as a crutch.