topic Re: Composite wall with adjusting thickness in Modeling

Composite wall with adjusting thickness

Zendrix — Thu, 21 Nov 2024 23:15:30 GMT

Hi!

Lets consider a stone wall, like in old houses, where the thickness of it would vary and you would have 20mm plaster inside and outside:

Is there a way to have a composite wall like this, where the inner core keeps adjusting its thickness and the outter and inner endings are always 20mm plaster? If there is no direct way, whats the best workflow? I have seen the option of creating pilars, but if you have a skewed wall its not practical.

Or are you better of just drawing a simple stone wall? But then how could you represent the plasters thickness?

Thanks

Re: Composite wall with adjusting thickness

Zendrix — Thu, 21 Nov 2024 23:42:32 GMT

By the way, even doing a simple non composite polygonal wall gets me in trouble cause when i reach the end it closes itself in a solid shape filling the entire footprint of the house. Do i have to make it 4 different sectioned walls, like in the attached pic? Or is there a simple way that im missing?

Thanks

Re: Composite wall with adjusting thickness

Barry Kelly — Fri, 22 Nov 2024 00:35:11 GMT

Firstly, poly walls are best done to one side of the building at a time, or you could get away with 2 sides if the corner is 90°.

If the wall forms a "U" shape, then a door or window on one side wall will cut a hole in the opposite side wall.

And you can't have skins on a poly wall.

You can use composite walls, but not a single one for varying thicknesses.

You need to join different walls end to end.

You need to create a new wall for each thickness.

If the wall skins are not parallel, then you could use the 'trapezoidal' geometry, otherwise you are back to poly walls is the thickness is not evenly changing from end to end.

Or you could use Complex profile walls.

These can have 'modifiers' associated to the skin thickness.

You will only need one wall type (complex profile), but you still need to join lengths of walls end to end where the thickness changes.

The thickness of each length can then be adjusted by the modifier in section or 3D or in plan via the modifier settings.

The plaster skin will not wrap around the ends of the walls where the thickness changes.

So there you need to add a separate plaster skin wall (can be fiddly), or you could try a wall end maybe (if one allows you to stretch the amount wrap around the end - I am not sure if that is possible) or use the complex profile columns.

In the corners it is sometimes best to still use complex profile columns.

Barry.

Re: Composite wall with adjusting thickness

Zendrix — Fri, 22 Nov 2024 01:38:13 GMT

Hi Barry,

Thanks for your quick answer!

So the best way to go about the above example would be to make those for walls independently (1,2,3 & 4) as poly walls? And maybe add an independent plaster layer to each side after that?

Thanks,

Re: Composite wall with adjusting thickness

Barry Kelly — Fri, 22 Nov 2024 01:56:59 GMT

If poly walls, definitely 4 separate walls.

Do you need to see the plaster skin in plan or section?

Sure, in a large scale detail you will want to see it but then it could be added as a fill.

But if you do need to see the plaster skin, it will have to be a separate wall which means cutting separate openings.

Your walls look a constant thickness except at the corners, so I would use a composite or complex profile with columns in the corners.

Barry.

Re: Composite wall with adjusting thickness

Lingwisyer — Fri, 22 Nov 2024 02:20:38 GMT

For your corners, place a Column of the Building Material from the side you want to have protrude into your Composite Wall and turn on the Finish Wrapping setting. Why is this not practical for skewed walls?

Ling.

Re: Composite wall with adjusting thickness

Zendrix — Fri, 22 Nov 2024 12:27:10 GMT

Hi guys,

Thanks again for your inputs.

Barry:

"But if you do need to see the plaster skin, it will have to be a separate wall which means cutting separate openings" : with this you are just meaning a window will have to be protruding the wall and the plaster, is that it? I would like to represent the plaster because of 2 reasons: 1) i will need it at 1:20 or 1:50 scale; 2) i would like to have quantities of this element coming out as data; It is also because i am starting to learn the program and would like to explore how accurate can we take it without making it too complex;

Ling:

What if besides my pilar insertion, as you suggest, i also have the problem of some walls having different thicknesses in both ends (i guess trapezoidal - see attached pic)? You would still go about making it a composite?

Thank you for your time,

Cheers

Re: Composite wall with adjusting thickness

Zendrix — Fri, 22 Nov 2024 12:35:45 GMT

I just see a lot, or some, impratical things working with composites here: for instance, check the attached picture: i would have a problem in the back of that corner, cause the end of the wal is not aligned with the wall that joins with it at a 90º angle. How would i fix these stuff practically with composites?

Re: Composite wall with adjusting thickness

Barry Kelly — Fri, 22 Nov 2024 12:38:59 GMT

Windows and doors can only belong to one wall.

If you use poly walls, you can not have a plaster skin.

So, you would have to model that as a separate wall and then place openings to match your doors and windows.

Trapezoidal walls can be composites, but only one of the skins will change in width - the one opposite the reference line.

Barry.

Re: Composite wall with adjusting thickness

Barry Kelly — Fri, 22 Nov 2024 12:57:53 GMT

A complex profile column with plaster skins does not have to be rectangular.

It can be any shape you want to match the angles of your walls.

This is not something I have ever had to model though, so I may not be giving the best information.

Barry.

Re: Composite wall with adjusting thickness

Zendrix — Fri, 22 Nov 2024 13:17:25 GMT

Thanks Barry!

So i think im progressing, tell me if you thibk its a normal worflow:

1. I created walls nº 1, nº2 and nº3. They all have different thicknesses, so i had to create 3 different composite walls where the stone thickness was going to vary;

2. Wall nº3 i removed the plaster from outside skin cause its agains earth material;

3. Now i have a trapezoidal wall in the front façade but i cant seem to adjust its end thickness. i used the trapezoidal geometry, i tried changing the ending width parameters, tried hovering my mouse on some hotspot, but i cant seem to stretch that end in order to match it;

ALso, you said only one skin will change the thickness on a trapezoidal wall... couldnt it be the core changing its thickness?

Thanks,

Re: Composite wall with adjusting thickness

Zendrix — Sat, 23 Nov 2024 00:00:35 GMT

so i tried to get a pilar going on the corner in order to correct it, but:

1. I insert a pilar with the same building material

2. I chose the right wrapping method.

But im not getting the results, what am i doing wrong?

Cheers,

Re: Composite wall with adjusting thickness

Barry Kelly — Sun, 24 Nov 2024 02:24:08 GMT

I don't have Archciad in front of me at the moment.

Reading the help file it seem the last 'core' skin is the one that will get thicker.

Or it will be the thickest skin if your composite has not 'core' skin.

https://help.graphisoft.com/AC/28/INT/index.htm?rhcsh=1&rhnewwnd=0&rhmapid=#t=_AC28_Help%2F040_ElementsVB%2F040_ElementsVB-12.htm&rhsearch=trapezoidwall&rhhlterm=trapezoidwall&rhsyns=%20

Barry

Re: Composite wall with adjusting thickness

Zendrix — Sun, 24 Nov 2024 16:40:35 GMT

Hi Barry,

thanks for your relentless help. Yes, regarding the thickening of the skin, i also read that same text, it seems u cant get what i was looking for, but i think i can manage with it the way i have now.

But regarding the application of the pilar in the corners im having trouble making the pilar "blend in" with the walls, its just not happening, dont know why.

Cheers,

Re: Composite wall with adjusting thickness

Barry Kelly — Mon, 25 Nov 2024 00:44:36 GMT

Now I have Archicad in front of me.

The plaster skin on the composite wall can not be a 'core'.

it must be 'other' or 'finish'.

Barry.

Re: Composite wall with adjusting thickness

Lingwisyer — Mon, 25 Nov 2024 02:08:30 GMT

The column needs to penetrate the Core of the wall. The Finish and Other skins will then wrap.

I am not sure how you would go about a trapazoidal Composite wall as I have never needed to... You want something like the Tapered Complex Beam option, but for Walls.