topic Re: Is Graphisoft actively doing anything about the shocking graphics & input lag of ArchiCAD 27 in Modeling

Is Graphisoft actively doing anything about the shocking graphics & input lag of ArchiCAD 27?

Paul King — Sun, 21 Jan 2024 05:06:22 GMT

Under Windows 11, using a pretty high end Workstation with high end GPU with lots of gRAM, with even small residential scale projects, ArchiCAD 27 is still an absolute dog to use performance wise compared with earlier versions.

I could perhaps understand if this was a beta, or maybe a first release, but this issue has persisted through several updates.

Performance seems to get even worse when zoomed in, in both plan and 3D. Sometimes literally seconds of lag occur - for example when holding shift while selecting (to constrain movement direction). in reasonably simple contexts without lots of objects on screen. Hotspots are offset from actual geometry in 3D when zoomed in even moderately close,. in 2D windows, black linework visually thickens and changes colour to red depending on orientation - harking back 30 years to the the way lines would change appearance on old NTSC CRT monitors.

etc

Windows Task Manager often shows minimal CPU utilization while these lags are occurring, so my semi random guess is the bottleneck is in utilization of the GPU (despite its high specs) and is something to do with a poorly optimised OpenGL implementation

My reseller advised months ago that Graphisoft was aware of the issue - but things are still no better three versions/hotfixes later.

Have GS lost most of their developers or just lost interest?

Re: Is Graphisoft actively doing anything about the shocking graphics & input lag of ArchiCAD 27

Laszlo Nagy — Thu, 18 Jan 2024 16:27:45 GMT

A new Hotfix was released just today. Do you still have these issues with this latest Hotfix?:

https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Graphisoft-Insights/Archicad-27-1-2-Hotfix-release/ba-p/584223

Re: Is Graphisoft actively doing anything about the shocking graphics & input lag of ArchiCAD 27

Paul King — Thu, 18 Jan 2024 16:59:40 GMT

Hi Laszlo. Yes, just updated to hotfix 27.1.2, and issue still seem to occur.

I also updated to latest NVIDIA driver, but also made no difference.

Hard to show the lag, but here is an example of displaced hotspots with a selected element

I can't seem to screen capture the issue of lines changing apparent weight and colour depending on orientation - only visible on screen within an ArchiCAD window - issue disappears when screen capture pasted into any other window.

Re: Is Graphisoft actively doing anything about the shocking graphics & input lag of ArchiCAD 27

Botonis — Thu, 18 Jan 2024 20:59:09 GMT

Is this update supposed to fix graphics performance issues for Windows?

Although there is a download for Windows the announcement refers to Mac specifically

There are also other posts related to a 0,5 second white screen flashing when moving between tabs.

The registry fix which activates the previous rendering OPENGL API elimininates all this problems which means that the transition to the DirectX is not optimized yet.

Greetings!

Re: Is Graphisoft actively doing anything about the shocking graphics & input lag of ArchiCAD 27

Paul King — Mon, 22 Jan 2024 11:39:44 GMT

If the Registry fix is the same as the one noted here for ArchiCAD 26? https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Installation-update/Archicad-26-and-DPI-issue-on-4K-monitors-under-Windows-11/m-p/363174, it does seem to help with the linework issue and a little bit with the selection lag issue (often still pretty bad), but unfortunately makes no difference to the offset selection node issues I am experiencing.

A new issue is created however - the bottom of the ArchiCAD application window is then masked by the Windows taskbar if the window is set to full extents using the ArchiCAD window maximise gadget. Long drop down menus disappear off the bottom of the visible portion of the window, meaning that there is no way to access items at the bottom of the menu, even using the menu scroll bar - unless I set the Windows task bar to hidden (something I prefer not to do as it interferes with task bar notifications, clock etc)

Re: Is Graphisoft actively doing anything about the shocking graphics & input lag of ArchiCAD 27

Barry Kelly — Fri, 19 Jan 2024 00:52:53 GMT

The hotspot issue - is that an object or just a basic Archicad element (wall or beam)?

If it is an object, the hotspots may be scripted incorrectly?

Barry.

Re: Is Graphisoft actively doing anything about the shocking graphics & input lag of ArchiCAD 27

Paul King — Fri, 19 Jan 2024 01:44:29 GMT

Hi, no, that example is actually just a tall thin piece of slab,

Same offset issue applies to all entitles, basic or scripted. Not very noticeable when zoomed out, but a real problem if trying to do fine adjustments zoomed in

I notice the dynamic feedback display linework is also pretty janky while editing. Almost as if there is some sort of rounding error associated with a far distant project origin that affects just the dynamic feedback display, but not the ordinary model geometry display. However in this case the project origin is close by.

Re: Is Graphisoft actively doing anything about the shocking graphics & input lag of ArchiCAD 27

Paul King — Sun, 21 Jan 2024 05:05:05 GMT

A further issue just noted after applying the registry 'fix' is that when selecting elements like beams, for which there are many stored profile options available , the cursor will sometimes (but not always) freeze and flicker for a few seconds, along with the associated object type drop down menu icon in the top header bar in the window (this flickers simultaneously. though does not actually drop down)

This is without actually changing any object parameters or explicitly trying to invoke that drop down menu.

Re: Is Graphisoft actively doing anything about the shocking graphics & input lag of ArchiCAD 27

Central Innovation — Tue, 06 Feb 2024 00:57:27 GMT

Hi Paul

In the next release of Archicad due out in February 2024, the known bug DEF - 16662 which we believe affects your issue, has been repaired in release 27.2.0 .

Re: Is Graphisoft actively doing anything about the shocking graphics & input lag of ArchiCAD 27

Paul King — Tue, 06 Feb 2024 01:59:24 GMT

Great ! - will give this a try when released, and report back.

Hopefully the serious input lag issues generally have also been addressed?

Re: Is Graphisoft actively doing anything about the shocking graphics & input lag of ArchiCAD 27

Botonis — Tue, 06 Feb 2024 06:53:57 GMT

This DEF-16662 bug was mentioned in another post and related to the slow trace reference.

Does it also expand to this general lagging that is reffered in the current post?

Re: Is Graphisoft actively doing anything about the shocking graphics & input lag of ArchiCAD 27

Jaime-airc_digital — Tue, 06 Feb 2024 15:00:24 GMT

Normally this behaviour of displaced hotspots and low graphics performance is caused by elements being very far away from the project origin. Can you check that is not the problem?

Re: Is Graphisoft actively doing anything about the shocking graphics & input lag of ArchiCAD 27

Allegri — Tue, 06 Feb 2024 19:54:54 GMT

In macOS things are no better, to move a normal morph object it takes a couple of seconds. I was hoping for updates, but nothing has changed

Re: Is Graphisoft actively doing anything about the shocking graphics & input lag of ArchiCAD 27

rm — Tue, 06 Feb 2024 20:14:53 GMT

Yes, I have seen that before as well. Accidentally had round columns placed waaaaaaaay off screen. Took a long time to figure it out.

Re: Is Graphisoft actively doing anything about the shocking graphics & input lag of ArchiCAD 27

Paul King — Wed, 07 Feb 2024 00:14:41 GMT

The project origin is nearby. What I did find on a hidden layer was some 2D linework (presumably imported from a surveyor by another user) that was fairly distant.

I deleted it, but did not notice any obvious improvement at the time, though am not currently active on that project.

Ordinary line work seems fine in 3D, so it seems to only be whatever subsystem is responsible for dynamic feedback that is affected.

Perhaps the fact that the distant elements existed at one time in the project is enough to permanently trigger rounding of the least significant bits in coordinates for the dynamic feedback subsystem?

Either way, the dynamic feedback system I think needs a good overhaul - both for speed, and resilience , given that imported surveyor's info with distant origins or distant elements is part of nearly any architectural job.

This is also the case on any multidisciplinary job, where adherence to an agreed universal project origin between disciplines and BIM/CAD systems is important - local origin workarounds to reduce memory requirements should no longer be required , given that nowadays we all run 64 bit machines, with minimum 16/32 GB RAM.

Perhaps there could be a 'legacy coordinates memory usage' tick box for those that don't need it?

Re: Is Graphisoft actively doing anything about the shocking graphics & input lag of ArchiCAD 27

jl_lt — Wed, 07 Feb 2024 05:00:58 GMT

Just checked. We are still in the RAM limbo of 12gb.

Re: Is Graphisoft actively doing anything about the shocking graphics & input lag of ArchiCAD 27

Johnva — Mon, 03 Feb 2025 04:28:04 GMT

Have you considered the monitors you are using. It could be due to the double 4K setup. I have noticed that Archicad feels sluggish on my 4K 32” monitor but smooth on a regular 1080p monitor. Both having refresh rate of 60hz. I have wanted to try a higher refresh rate to see what happens. Maybe this is the issue?

Re: Is Graphisoft actively doing anything about the shocking graphics & input lag of ArchiCAD 27

Paul King — Mon, 03 Feb 2025 04:51:58 GMT

@Johnva wrote:

Have you considered the monitors you are using. It could be due to the double 4K setup. I have noticed that Archicad feels sluggish on my 4K 32” monitor but smooth on a regular 1080p monitor. Both having refresh rate of 60hz. I have wanted to try a higher refresh rate to see what happens. Maybe this is the issue?

Hi @Johnva Yes every chance this is resolution related.

The issue is that other 3D and 2D graphically intensive software, and my dedicated graphics hardware is more than capable of delivering a very responsive experience under 2x4K monitors.

The issue is really exacerbated with trace reference on in 2D - with even very simple models in foreground and simple 2D line drawings as the reference in the background.

Suggests to me that perhaps the way ArchiCAD is trying to use GPU hardware memory (which is inherently VERY fast) is a long way from optimal - perhaps for compatibility reasons.

At the end of the day, 4K is just the resolution that most professionals use in the design disciplines, and dual and multi-monitor setups are the norm rather than the exception - so GS treating this as some sort of low priority 'edge' case is not ok.

Re: Is Graphisoft actively doing anything about the shocking graphics & input lag of ArchiCAD 27

Botonis — Mon, 03 Feb 2025 08:31:07 GMT

There is another similar thread here:

https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Modeling/AC27-3d-window-performance-broken-on-Windows-developers-refusing/m-p/646836#M174848

I am reposting what I did as a test and in my case it had some positive results in matters of scrolling and screen refreshing in both 2d and 3d.

Both in Archicad 27 and 28. The DirectX transition (in comparison to OpenGL) may causes problems or conflicts with other apps.

I did some tests by disabling the "Hardware acceleration" for some apps that were running always on my PC (simultaneously with archicad) like:

Discord

Chrome

Steam

Tidal

Windows GPU "Hardware Acceleration"

It seems that Archicad runs smoothly without lagging. Usually Archicad started fine but when I was using those apps a response lag appeared.

This has dissapeared and 2d and 3d loads faster and scrolling is normal always.

I am not sure if there is still a problem with the mouse DPI settings . Although Archicad is supposed to support 500rps polling rate, when I set my mouse it lags so I have set it to the lowest 125, and it feels OK. After all I am not playing in game!

Can someone try and describe the results?

Greetings to all.

Re: Is Graphisoft actively doing anything about the shocking graphics & input lag of ArchiCAD 27

Paul King — Mon, 03 Feb 2025 09:11:53 GMT

I find disabling hardware acceleration results in video corruption, with parts of the screen containing remnants of previous views etc.