topic Re: MEP 27 - The New Feature that never happened in Modeling

MEP 27 - The New Feature that never happened

DGSketcher — Wed, 15 Nov 2023 18:01:57 GMT

Can someone from Graphisoft please step up and own the current abject failure to deliver the renewed MEP Modeller?

Today I joined the many others who have had to return to using AC26 in order to deliver on our MEP commitments.

We all pay out for GS to deliver improvements to AC, yet here we are 7 months later with a key feature broken & software we can't use. Can someone at least tell us what we can expect in terms of delivery of fixing this MEP debacle and when?

It's bad enough struggling with the 3D screen "grey outs", and the disappointment of new features that suddenly became experimental, but finding a fundamental tool is no longer useable... 🙄

Re: MEP 27 - The New Feature that never happened

Balint Kezer — Thu, 16 Nov 2023 08:11:42 GMT

Hi @DGSketcher,

I appreciate you sharing your concerns regarding the new MEP functionality in Archicad. I acknowledge that the current state might not meet the expectations set by Archicad 26, and I understand the frustration it can cause. The decision to introduce a new solution was made with the intention of providing a feature-rich and more user-friendly experience in the long run.

I want to assure you that we are actively working on addressing the issues you and others have encountered. While I recognize the challenges you're facing, I am committed to assisting you in resolving any issues you may be experiencing. Please feel free to share specific details about the issues you're encountering, and I'll do my best to either help you troubleshoot or provide information on when a fix can be expected.

Thank you for your patience as we work towards improving the MEP functionality, and I look forward to assisting you further.

Best regards,

Re: MEP 27 - The New Feature that never happened

DGSketcher — Thu, 16 Nov 2023 09:42:32 GMT

Hi Balint, I know your a good person and from our past exchanges you always seem keen to help, but this reply just smacks of the usual GS noncommittal scripts and doesn't answer the question in my OP.

The issue is MEP27 is unusable. I don't think there's a workaround for that.

B.R.

Trevor

Re: MEP 27 - The New Feature that never happened

Balint Kezer — Thu, 16 Nov 2023 10:12:07 GMT

I really appreciate your feedback Trevor, but 'MEP27 is unusable' does not help me understand the issues better. To provide more specific information about fixes or new features, I need details on the issues you're facing with MEP in Archicad 27.

I've been transparent about changes in other discussions, such as addressing documentation functionalities in Archicad 27. I'm here to work together on finding solutions, so please share your specific pain points.

Re: MEP 27 - The New Feature that never happened

DGSketcher — Thu, 16 Nov 2023 14:14:21 GMT

I appreciate that you want to work together on finding solutions, but doing it for software that has gone live, but doesn't seem to have even passed alpha feels a bit late and there are too many pain points to justify listing them. At least in 26 there was a useable tool, now just about everything fails on so many basic levels for modelling, presentation and documenting, certainly for pipework. If you can't see the problems yourself then I am not wasting my unpaid time to highlight them for you just to make the shareholders even richer.

By the sounds of it, I'm guessing we're not going to see a useable MEP toolset until AC28, if we're lucky?

Re: MEP 27 - The New Feature that never happened

Balint Kezer — Thu, 16 Nov 2023 15:20:19 GMT

I'm really sorry you feel that way. There will be a lot of things coming already in Archicad 27.2.0 Update and even more with the next release in Archicad.

It is perfectly fine if you do not want to give detailed feedback about the current MEP functionality, but I also think it is a great way to influence future direction by commenting on the current functionality. If you change your mind anytime in the future, feel free to let me know.

Thanks,

Re: MEP 27 - The New Feature that never happened

JaredBanks — Thu, 16 Nov 2023 21:27:42 GMT

I was seeing opening the Route Preferences crash Archicad 27 on a PC. Not sure if it was just one file/one computer or all machines and files at the firm with the issue. it wasn't an issue I could reproduce on an intel mac.

Re: MEP 27 - The New Feature that never happened

Stewie11 — Thu, 16 Nov 2023 21:29:03 GMT

I fully agree with your outrage at the disregard for paying users. I don't understand why they had to force this rudimentary version into this update when they knew full well it was useless. Moreover, the old version was deleted. Of course, few people use the MEP tool, some disappointed users don't matter much.... I would be curious to see the reactions if the wall or staircase tools had done this GS. I'm not optimistic about the future.

Re: MEP 27 - The New Feature that never happened

Stewie11 — Thu, 16 Nov 2023 21:42:48 GMT

Hi Bálint.
If you've finally scrapped the previous version of MEP, can you make api open source?

Re: MEP 27 - The New Feature that never happened

Barry Kelly — Fri, 17 Nov 2023 04:40:28 GMT

@Balint Kezer ,

I am sure you are working very hard to get the MEP fixes/improvements out as soon as possible.

But please look at it from a user's perspective.

They now have a tool (system) that used to work (not perfectly, but adequately), but now in 27 it is practically useless.

If I may quote yourself in at least one response ... "Thanks for elaborating on your use cases. My suggestion would be to use Archicad 26 if you are modeling plumbing on a daily basis."

The link to that post ...

https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Modeling/MEP-multi-mistake/m-p/400533/highlight/true#M168680

Problems with the 27 MEP system were picked up in Beta and Tech Preview testing.

In my opinion, it should never have been released in 27.

You yourself have said if you rely on MEP, go back to version 26.

Please don't forget that people are paying for 27, and if they can't use it, what are they paying for?

I must state here that I personally don't use MEP, so I am not affected by this, but I do sympathise with those that do use it.

I wasn't going to post this, purely because I do not use MEP. but thought I should stand up for my fellow Archicad users.

It has been 2 months now since 27 was released and we have had the first update just recently.

As far as I know there are no improvements to MEP in that update.

In fact, according to the list of improvements only 3 items were fixed, and they weren't what I thought would warrant an update.

Maybe there were more (Sonoma?) issues fixed that just weren't listed.

You have been transparent in discussing the issues and we all appreciate that.

But I do agree with DGSketcher, that the problems have been posted about many times already and there should be no need for anyone to list them all again.

It would be very nice to have some time frame for if or when these fixes will be made.

Will there be some (which ones?) in the coming weeks or are we talking months until the next update?

Or will the majority of it only be fixed in version 28?

I know it is probably not wise to promise certain dates for this to be fixed, but I do think some general idea of weeks or months could help user decide if they should enquire about suspending their subscriptions.

I am pretty sure if I relied on the MEP system, and I had to go back to using 26, I would not want to be paying for 27.

There, I have said my piece that I have been holding back on for some time now.

This is just how I feel about it, others can express their thoughts themselves.

Respectfully,

Barry.

Re: MEP 27 - The New Feature that never happened

mthd — Fri, 17 Nov 2023 07:20:58 GMT

Thank you Barry for speaking up on behalf of the many users here. You spoke kindly, respectfully and tactfully. I am sure we all appreciate your many years of experience in using AC and helping all of us with our problems.

What we have been saying all along is coming true, with so many extras needing attention this was inevitable. Multi Tasking is only myth, you can only focus properly on one thing at a time.

Lets hope AC27 UD2 is good.

Re: MEP 27 - The New Feature that never happened

DGSketcher — Fri, 17 Nov 2023 08:40:53 GMT

@Balint Kezer Please can you answer this very serious question...

We are being advised to use AC26 if we need MEP modelling, but can you confirm what will happen to that MEP data when it is migrated to AC27/28 e.g. will all the design work be lost?

Re: MEP 27 - The New Feature that never happened

mthd — Fri, 17 Nov 2023 10:01:02 GMT

Hopefully MEP is not deliberately made to play up so you get frustrated and decide to use DDSCAD instead lol ?

Re: MEP 27 - The New Feature that never happened

Balint Kezer — Fri, 17 Nov 2023 16:45:20 GMT

Dear Barry and all,

Thank you very much for taking the time to write this up, I believe you have summed up the user viewpoint quite well and it helped me understand the frustration from each of you quite well. I really hope that this information about what will the following updates contain in regards to MEP will make you feel a bit better about the future.

As Jared mentioned we fixed a crash that was occurring in Route Preferences in Archicad 27.1.0

There will a few MEP related fixes coming in Archicad 27.1.1:

Fix for not being able to select the first predefined size (MAC only issue)
Fix for the issue of Favorite not recognizing preferences set in template
Fix for Pick up and Activate not working properly for MEP routes

There are still some questions about Archicad 27.2.0, but we plan to improve on the following areas:

Allow native MEP Labeling, Scheduling and Dimensioning
Magic Wand for MEP routes
Splitting of MEP routes
Offsetting segments of a route
Improved connection between MEP elements
DWG export of MEP elements
Solid Element Operation for MEP elements
Converting MEP elements to Morph
Section related representation and modeling improvements
Flexible duct related improvements
Fixes for Floor Plan display related bugs
Fix for Default Rotation of MEP Terminals, Accessories and Equipment
Fix for not creating opening by a route when it is the lastly selected element

Please feel free to let me know if you would like to know more about anything on this list, or if you know about something that you believe should be fixed, but you cannot find it above.

Thanks,

Re: MEP 27 - The New Feature that never happened

Balint Kezer — Fri, 17 Nov 2023 16:56:43 GMT

Sure, If you import an MEP model originally created in an earlier version of Archicad, it will show up correctly geometry wise. But the elements itself will not convert to the new routing elements and in most cases they will not be represented by their real object category.

For example an Equipment place down in Archicad 26 will hold the same position and parameters, but will show up as a 'General Object' instead of an Equipment. In the case of distribution elements, a connection of straight segments, bends and transitions will be keeping all their information, but they will not form a route as it would happen with this group of objects in Archicad 27. They will still retain their GDL parameters and you will be able to modify their width and height or other relevant geometric properties.

Re: MEP 27 - The New Feature that never happened

Barry Kelly — Sat, 18 Nov 2023 13:45:07 GMT

Balint,

Thank you for the detailed list.

Hopefully this will address many of the problems and we don't have to wait too long.

Barry.

Re: MEP 27 - The New Feature that never happened

Mahmoud Qenawi — Sat, 18 Nov 2023 15:46:17 GMT

Excellent @Balint Kezer 👏👏👍

Thanks for informing us with these futuristic plans for MEP functions in Archicad, that lets us become onboard and nearer to GS and to you especially.

Re: MEP 27 - The New Feature that never happened

DGSketcher — Sun, 19 Nov 2023 17:13:31 GMT

@Balint Kezer So in light of the AC26 update mess and based on your comments regarding the MEP migration from AC26 to 27/28 I have cut my losses and gone back to trying to develop my drainage layout in AC27. I'm hoping MEP27 is working before the final Construction Documents are issued.

So a few points to add to your pressing list of urgent items...

The collection of MEP objects currently lacks items that were in AC26.
There isn't an easy way to delete a node.
I have no idea how the pipe runs are determining their plan display. I am currently trying to model on a lower reference layer as the storey where the route was drawn doesn't show the pipe route despite setting the FPCP levels to show beyond the lowest route level.
I would like to pick a drain route and have all levels average out / adjust to a provided gradient e.g. 18mm/m between 2 points. In an ideal world this would also include the levels where a branch connects to non-vertical pipe levels.

I may add to this list as I keep trying to complete my project.

Re: MEP 27 - The New Feature that never happened

Karl Ottenstein — Fri, 06 Jun 2025 16:49:50 GMT

I very rarely use MEP, so had not jumped in earlier. Very much appreciate the honesty of Barry's post and Balint's responses to that and Trevor's .... but I'm at a complete loss as to why anyone would "appreciate" that utterly basic functionality will not return until at least 27.2.0.

My jaw is totally on the floor when Balint says that MEP content from 26 will not migrate to corresponding MEP content in 27.... equipment will no longer be equipment, and routes will no longer be routes that can be edited. Yet, he (Graphisoft) advises that people needing MEP should model that in AC 26 - knowing full well that when, eventually, 27 or beyond has full MEP again, none of that work will be editable as MEP. Do I need another coffee, or am I totally missing the insanity here? It seems that there is no means of working on a project with MEP today other than starting ... and completing... the project in 26 where the MEP elements remain "live". (Or doing weird workarounds with exports of IFC from 27 of the main model to 26 and exporting IFC of the MEP from 26 back to 27...)

@Balint Kezer I think what the user community needs from your team for clarity is a KB Article posted here (and kept up-to-date) with (at least) three columns, showing what is/was possible in 26, what is possible in the current release of 27, and what will be guaranteed possible in updates to 27, within the release cycle, for customers who paid for this release.

I'm seriously trying to remember any case in the past 25 years when significant core functionality was removed like this and just can't think of anything. Even things that changed had a migration path in the past (e.g., 'legacy' checkboxes).

Re: MEP 27 - The New Feature that never happened

DGSketcher — Sun, 19 Nov 2023 21:06:01 GMT

Thank you for your supportive contribution Karl, along with Barry. I appreciate many of my recent comments which are pointed at Graphisoft and Archicad may be blunt and far from diplomatic, but I'm still trying to do the same job with the same software and it just gets harder every year. Banging your head on a brick wall year after year takes its toll, and in recent times we have gone from "We could do this better by..." to "WTF have you done now!".

I may be wrong, but I have a feeling Balint has been forced into this difficult position from on high, and the stupidity of this decision should rest squarely with the captain of the ship. There are a growing number of recent "features" that seem to have been released without due care and consideration, almost like they are rushed to meet a deadline, just to achieve some kind of parity with a competitor whilst the fundamentals take a back seat. I don't want to sound like a scratched record, everything else I could add has been well documented, so I will stop here.