topic Re: SEO amount and file unsable in 3d. We have an 83 acre site with many SEO in Modeling

SEO amount and file unsable in 3d. We have an 83 acre site with many SEO

stan-rostas — Fri, 23 May 2025 10:54:09 GMT

We have been developing a site model, and we have completed ⅓ of the site, including roads, walks, and driveways. Things were working, albeit slowly, when transitioning to 3D, but they were working. We have now added the other ⅔ of objects to the SEO of the intersection, then subtract upward. The file will not open a 3D view. We let it run overnight, and it is still running. So the question is, where is the information with red flares that states do not create more SEO than a certain amount? We will now need to enter the 2D view and determine how to remove all these SEO elements, which could be done one by one, unfortunately, since we do not have a method to view a list of these SEO elements and eliminate them. I'm not sure what the answer is here, but for Site work and in many instances, building work, we need SEO not to slow down the application the way it presently does, and make the 3D unusable.

Re: SEO amount and file unsable in 3d. We have an 83 acre site with many SEO

Erik Bjornhage — Thu, 22 May 2025 06:55:02 GMT

Is there an option to roll back before the latest batch of SEO?
Feels like that would be a quicker option than trying to troubleshoot one item at a time...

Re: SEO amount and file unsable in 3d. We have an 83 acre site with many SEO

karsten_bauschert — Thu, 22 May 2025 06:57:33 GMT

I guess you are pushing the limits for Archicad.

As for SEO we realized its best to fragment big elements (like terrain, slabs etc) into smaller pieces.

10 elements with 10 SEOs is more performant than one big one with 100 SEOs.

Re: SEO amount and file unsable in 3d. We have an 83 acre site with many SEO

stan-rostas — Fri, 23 May 2025 10:58:16 GMT

We had over 1,200 SEO objects and 2,400 operations and were unsure where to post, as this seems like an issue core to the program. We saw another post on this forum regarding SEO. Interestingly, after running the 3D view for over 16 hours, ArchiCAD finally eliminated most, if not all, of the SEO operations associated with the objects.

We understand the need for MEP and Structural components in ArchiCAD. Still, all projects begin with the land, and it would be beneficial if land features were integrated with the Civil Engineering aspects of construction. Currently, Microstation and Autodesk dominate this market, with Vectorworks filling the landscape needs, which in turn leads to other professions utilizing their other products.

Re: SEO amount and file unsable in 3d. We have an 83 acre site with many SEO

Nathan Hildebrandt — Fri, 23 May 2025 10:58:58 GMT

Stan,

I suggest providing a copy to your local technical support to demonstrate the limitations that you have found in the software. There was the post from @James B on SEO usage. I will have a chat with him to see if your experience is the scope of the project he was investigating.

Regarding the need for the Mesh Tool to be improved, I can not agree more with you, it is something on my list. Sadly I don't see anything on the roadmap relating to the Mesh Tool so you will need to identify some work arounds in the short term.

Regards Nathan

Re: SEO amount and file unsable in 3d. We have an 83 acre site with many SEO

Mario Sacco — Fri, 23 May 2025 03:51:32 GMT

I had the same problem with a huge model of an hospital.

I think it's a problem the coders can't avoid.

Calculate the SEO of a single element on more element will be always slower then the SEO of the same element divided in more elements. The fact is that the software must create a temporary huge SEO geometry always when there is a change on the model; the SEO geometry is temporary memorarized in AC until there is a change.

Something similar happened to calculate merged fills. If you try to merge thousand of fills is slower instead calculate in more steps part of these thousand fills. For example 100 fills each times. You need more operations but it's faster. But instead of the SEO problem, this can be resolver by the coder.

Codings misteries!!!

Re: SEO amount and file unsable in 3d. We have an 83 acre site with many SEO

Eduardo Rolon — Fri, 23 May 2025 12:21:14 GMT

Beside splitting the mesh in smaller areas (remember to keep a backup of the original mesh just in case):

Something to try is to have a specific layer priority number for the site elements so that AC ignore the rest of the model.

Also avoid using slabs for SEOs with meshes and use flat meshes since they do not participate in PBCs

Re: SEO amount and file unsable in 3d. We have an 83 acre site with many SEO

Botonis — Fri, 23 May 2025 12:32:13 GMT

This is something I never used before and obviously it creates a workflow deviation but just as a test if you convert the whole mesh to a morph does the lag disappear?

You then have to always keep the mesh somehow with those SEO in the background and update it accordingly and then convert it again to a morph....

If you were sure that there is no gonna be any other action to that mesh, maybe the convertion to morph will solve the workability problem.....

Just to be able to continue working

I don't know if you export the mesh as IFC and import it again. You may need to have two files....

Re: SEO amount and file unsable in 3d. We have an 83 acre site with many SEO

B_Migito — Fri, 23 May 2025 12:51:35 GMT

There is this community made object that could be the answer to what you're doing.

https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/GDL/Is-there-a-tool-object-for-making-a-mesh-with-a-specified/td-p/277059/page/6

It won't prevent you from splitting your terrain into multiple, smaller meshes but it will drastically reduce the SEO you need to do for roadworks and such

Re: SEO amount and file unsable in 3d. We have an 83 acre site with many SEO

Davor P — Sat, 24 May 2025 11:57:02 GMT

This "limitation of software" has been known - just add a few hundred SEO interactions of any sort and model will already become measurably slower. Graphisoft is well aware of this but apart from stating it they don't provide a solution. I have an addon - Find Operators that lets you detect them at least. You can get it for free for AC26.

How many of these operations need to be editable? If some don't need to be live, finalize them then save morphs as an object and replace morphs with the object.

Re: SEO amount and file unsable in 3d. We have an 83 acre site with many SEO

jl_lt — Sat, 24 May 2025 16:57:46 GMT

these "boolean operations" make software do more calculations, hence it is inevitable that the bigger they grow the slower everything gets.

moderation is the key, and only when modeling with other tools doesnt make it.

Re: SEO amount and file unsable in 3d. We have an 83 acre site with many SEO

cuba — Sat, 24 May 2025 19:34:19 GMT

Archicad does'nt have to calculate the seo operations when you convert them to morphs. With large terrains like this I keep a backup of the 'full' mesh model but convert the 'work' model to morphs..

Re: SEO amount and file unsable in 3d. We have an 83 acre site with many SEO

stan-rostas — Sun, 25 May 2025 12:48:35 GMT

We fully understand the calculation issue. Vectorworks incorporated Parasolids into their code, and these types of operations had minor impacts, indicating that it is possible to speed up the process. I am sure other applications can handle this history-based model editing, which allows for just adjusting the original operator to affect the final form. With iterative design, this is a key issue; thus, the power of Object- and material-based effects built into Archicad.

For this process of site area design, which includes streets, walks, plazas, and other hardscape elements, the shapes will continue to evolve over the project's life cycle. So, while converting to morphs is an option, it then creates the burden of recreating objects when the design changes. And with a morph, you still have to boolean out the site mesh to get your result, unless you fudge dimensions and raise them ever so slightly.