topic Re: can't get railing changes to stick in Modeling

can't get railing changes to stick

heathldesign — Tue, 09 May 2023 13:11:26 GMT

Good day,

yet another bug me thinks. i have been trying to edit a railing, but the changes don't stick. quit and restarted, didn't make a difference. i've tried editing it in edit mode from the 3D window, in 2D in edit mode, and in 2D with the railing tool settings dialogue. i make the changes and click OK. but the railing segment remains unchanged. so far the only way to do it is to delete it and build a new one exactly the way i want then place it. very inconvenient and quite the pain in the A. see the video

Re: can't get railing changes to stick

Jeff Galbraith — Tue, 03 Jan 2023 18:55:53 GMT

If you have made ANY customizations to that sub-element it will no longer be connected to the scheme settings. ie: even if you've customized the surface or classification or element ID, or any attribute of it at all. For this reason it is best to minimize sub-element level customizations. Try using the eyedropper to match properties from that railing and create an identical one next to it. This should recreate it tased not eh scheme settings and ignore any sub-element modifications. Then see if it will behave correctly after making a chance to the scheme.

Re: can't get railing changes to stick

heathldesign — Tue, 03 Jan 2023 20:49:50 GMT

What is meant by sub element? I had made changes like the length of the posts.

Re: can't get railing changes to stick

Jeff Galbraith — Tue, 03 Jan 2023 21:03:55 GMT

A Sub-Element is any piece of the railing object. A post, a rail, a baluster etc.

After initially creating a railing object, if you need to make changes to a sub-element you should go back into the overall object settings and change it there. Avoid pressing the on-screen 'Edit' button and making changes directly to the sub-elements, as this breaks their connection to the object and scheme settings and they immediately become static and disconnected from the scheme. (the same applies to sub-elements of other tools like the stair tool or curtain wall tool). Frankly, it's weakness of the program that this is not made more obvious, and that there is no easy way to redefine a sub-element based on 'root' object settings.

I recommend you ONLY ever make sub-element specific customizations when you have no other choice...and once all other aspects of the object are resolved through the overall object and scheme settings. Once you customize a sub-element the only way to change anything about it later is to do it element by element. In this case you would have to open the object in Edit mode and select and delete that railing sub-element.

Re: can't get railing changes to stick

heathldesign — Tue, 03 Jan 2023 22:20:05 GMT

wow. that's quite the liability if you ask me. i wonder if the additional flexibility os worth it? thanks for that. that's exactly what i ended up doing, though i don't understand why, after dissociating the elements, i wasn't able to edit the actual sub elements in edit mode directly. i understand that in order to remove the rail i needed to select it in edit mode and delete it instead of removing it in the settings, but i wasn't able to ad a panel that way. i'm sure it's as you say, but that just seams stupid.

Re: can't get railing changes to stick

Jeff Galbraith — Tue, 03 Jan 2023 22:48:25 GMT

Yes it's a finicky tool, but you can do a lot with it.

To add a new element you need to go into the segment / scheme portion of the object settings, select the sub-element type you want to add and then press the '+' key in the upper right corner:

To delete a sub-element you select it in the segment / scheme preview and press the '-' button.

It's worth playing around with all the settings in these complex tools to figure out how they each work (curtain wall, Railing, stair etc.). They are each like entire programs in themselves. It can be frustrating learning process and the Graphisoft documentation could be a lot better than it is, but once you know how they work you can model complex systems pretty efficiently. Favorites are essential for these tools...to save you from having to recreate the same things over and over again. You can save favorites of entire objects, and you can save favorites for individual sub-elements. It's well worth the time for objects you will use now and then.

Cheers,

Re: can't get railing changes to stick

heathldesign — Wed, 04 Jan 2023 00:59:03 GMT

Hey Jeff,

I did try to modify the railing that way, though i did it through the edit mode rather than object settings. it didn't work if you watch the video. i'll have to give it a go with the stair settings in stead and see if it works that way for me. yep. slow, long learning process. i'll definitely set up more favourites.

Thanks

Re: can't get railing changes to stick

Barry Kelly — Thu, 05 Jan 2023 11:48:02 GMT

If you have modified any individual segments or nodes of the railing so they are different to the overall settings, you will see a little yellow warning.

It is possible to reset them back to the overall settings without having to recreate the entire railing.

Barry.

Re: can't get railing changes to stick

heathldesign — Thu, 05 Jan 2023 19:27:44 GMT

but i need to make those individual modifications. and when i do i get the warning. so, then i reset them, make changes with the object settings, then go back and make the changes to the individual sub elements. what a pain.

thanks Kelly.

Re: can't get railing changes to stick

Barry Kelly — Sat, 07 Jan 2023 12:13:23 GMT

Yes it is a pain.

Once you start editing individual components, you are better to keep editing individual components.

You can select multiple components and edit them all in one go - just as you can in the main model.

Barry.

Re: can't get railing changes to stick

EH21 — Thu, 19 Jan 2023 17:12:56 GMT

I am having similar issues. I have the most recent AC 26 update for Apple Silicon. My problem is happening when I select a railing that came as a preset Favorite, but I want to change the returns and the material. It is not implementing any changes. I have tried this two ways, and none of them work:

1) Create new railing, then select the favorited one, then change settings to what I desire, then place railing.

2) Place railing first then try to edit information.

Lastly, I after I have already placed one railing in the project, when I go to place another, it defaults to the previous one placed, and again, I cannot amend any properties. See screenshot showing changes made that are note being implemented.

Re: can't get railing changes to stick

Jeff Galbraith — Thu, 19 Jan 2023 17:53:51 GMT

The problem may be that you're not editing the right rail in the settings. It took me a while to realize that there is a drop down menu in the top right corner of this menu:

The changes you make in this dialogue box will only apply to the rail selected. In your screen capture it looks like you are modifying the ends of your 'Toprail'. However you're actual railing may be defined as 'Handrail 1' or 'Handrail 2'. You need to select the correct rail from the drop down menu first and then make the changes.

You can confirm which railing you want to edit by selecting the 'Segment' listing in the selection tree in the left hand pane of the settings window, and then graphically selecting the rail in the 2D elevation preview. Once selected it will highlight green in the preview and select either 'Toprail', 'Rails', or 'Handrails' in the selection tree.

Re: can't get railing changes to stick

EH21 — Thu, 19 Jan 2023 20:02:26 GMT

Thanks, Jeff! I thought I was doing that, but I double-checked, and you are right.

Re: can't get railing changes to stick

Jeff Galbraith — Thu, 19 Jan 2023 20:27:57 GMT

It would really be nice if they added the various railing types in an additional sub-layer under the 'Ends' portion of the selection tree on the left side of that dialogue box. I can't tell you how much time and frustration I spent until I figured that out!

Re: can't get railing changes to stick

Botonis — Mon, 07 Oct 2024 09:42:49 GMT

Everytime I open a file that has a railing which has a custom setting, the railing is altered and I have to apply again the seetings I want.

If I have set the height o f a rail to 66% for a strange reason it changes to 0.66m. (relative reverts to absolute without any reason)

This happens more than often with railings.

Re: can't get railing changes to stick

Barry Kelly — Mon, 07 Oct 2024 09:40:06 GMT

If your rail segment is 1.0m high then 66% rail height will be 0.66m.

Barry.

Re: can't get railing changes to stick

Botonis — Mon, 07 Oct 2024 10:00:10 GMT

No. this is the problem. the height is 0.50m. I have two railings at 33% and 66% and they revert to 0.33cm and 0.66cm (The second is not visible at the settings).

I have to manuall readjust when I open the file.

Any idea for this......?

Re: can't get railing changes to stick

Barry Kelly — Mon, 07 Oct 2024 13:28:19 GMT

So your segment height is only 0.5m?

That is a very low railing.

The relative rail height is a % of the segment height.

Barry.

Re: can't get railing changes to stick

Botonis — Mon, 07 Oct 2024 19:44:28 GMT

Barry, I have another 50cm of concrete that the railing is installed on it.

The problem is not the height.

The problem is that the settings are changing on their own (from relative to absolute by keeping the same numeric value, from % to m. )when I open the file or when I create a design option by duplicating the model.

Edit: My file crashed and when I opened the file again. the railing had reverted to the absolute settings, after I had for once more changed them to relative.......before the crash.

Re: can't get railing changes to stick

Barry Kelly — Tue, 08 Oct 2024 01:00:54 GMT

I just experimented some more.

If I set some rails to absolute and some to relative, they remain that way.

Until I close and re-open the file.

Then they will all show as absolute, but the height is where they were, just converted from a % to an actual height (segment height multiplied by %).

Their position does not change and they can be switched back to relative if you want to see that value again.

Barry.