topic Re: Teamwork : how to divvy up the workspaces? in Modeling

Teamwork : how to divvy up the workspaces?

Erika Epstein — Sat, 27 Aug 2005 01:08:40 GMT

I have started working intensively with teamwork on small projects. I understand the different ways to share the file, what I would like to start is a discussion on the pros and cons of different ways of dividing up the workspaces.

We are working 2-3 people on small protects and I find us redefining work spaces several times a day. This is very time consuming. there must be better ways.

Are there some better strategies to this?
Ones to avoid?

thanks!

Re: Teamwork : how to divvy up the workspaces?

Anonymous — Sun, 28 Aug 2005 22:55:26 GMT

I am interested in this too, as we have just upgraded rest of office to AC9 and will be working together on some small-medium projects. Any advice appreciated.

Thanks

Re: Teamwork : how to divvy up the workspaces?

Link — Mon, 29 Aug 2005 05:02:34 GMT

There's so many different ways of divvying it up - by story, S/E, detail, camera path, layers, etc. One often overlooked method is by selected area. You can use your marquee tool during the sign in process to define an area on plan. These areas can touch (you can even snap to existing areas) but not overlap. The same marqueed area applies for any story you have selected, so it doesn't matter if it's thin or phat.

That's just a fundamental teamworking tip late on a Sunday night - not an advanced method that you are probably looking for. A combination of the above methods has always worked for me, but maybe Ben or James or other 'big office' users have interesting ideas.

Cheers,
Link.

Re: Teamwork : how to divvy up the workspaces?

Erika Epstein — Mon, 29 Aug 2005 05:41:11 GMT

Link wrote:
The same marqueed area applies for any story you have selected, so it doesn't matter if it's thin or phat.

A combination of the above methods has always worked for me, but maybe Ben or James or other 'big office' users have interesting ideas.

Cheers,
Link.

We've pretty much been dividing up work areas by sheet type.

When people are designing/redesigning are they working in their local version and just sending into the team leader when appropriate?

Are people really using the mark up tool to alert the rest of the team about changes?

I look forward to hearing more!

Re: Teamwork : how to divvy up the workspaces?

Anonymous — Mon, 29 Aug 2005 11:27:04 GMT

It is for me a question of Strategy.

The question is : how do you divide your works in your Office ?

In my precedent office in small projects —2 or 3 architects in teamwork— we try to cut the file in "logic entities" each entity being managed by a "specialist"
by example :
— User 1 "interiors layers", interiors walls, structure, stairs, furnitures
— User 2 exteriors walls and purely 3D layers in plan and elevation
— User 3 small drawing, texts, cotations, details

In bigger one you may divide
—by area where each "specialist or person in charge" who perfectly know his part of project an Auditorium, a restaurant, a technical area, car park, etc.
—or by layers the drawing of the all the grounds or the false ceilings, etc.

What does not prevent the conflicts and the frequent "Send and receive"…

Some is the choice carried out the rules of drawing must be even more rigorous than when one only works…

Re: Teamwork : how to divvy up the workspaces?

TomWaltz — Mon, 29 Aug 2005 12:52:18 GMT

In Archicad, I find that you cannot divide work in the traditional way: one person doing schedules, one person doing interior elevations, one person doing plans.... they are all too inter-related.

Instead, I recommend that work be divided like what Fmr said: by area. For example, interior and exteriors, sometimes an marquee for stairs and elevators. I usually try to get people to sign out using the "4-hour rule": If you are going to work on it in the next 4 hours, sign it out. If you are not going to work on it in the next 4 hours, leave it for someone else. That cuts down on the "layer hogs" who take the whole building for no reason, and the stingy ones who only take 1 layer at a time.

On some projects,we tried pre-made PLC files for each area. This way, there is a PLC for

"View Manager" - owns the main Viewset
"Interiors" - all interior building components, sections, and details. May be subdivided into architectural, MPE, and structural, and details.
"Exteriors" - all exterior components and sections. May be subdivided into site, building, roof, and details.

This was in an attempt to cut down (or eliminate) changing workspace. It is a pretty big time drain, but with a little planning, can be diminished.

Re: Teamwork : how to divvy up the workspaces?

Rakela Raul — Mon, 29 Aug 2005 13:12:27 GMT

In Archicad, I find that you cannot divide work in the traditional way: one person doing schedules, one person doing interior elevations, one person doing plans.... they are all too inter-related.

i think that small project should be taken by only one person .....and have other team members to do quality control, do details, cut and paste in pm, check schedules, etc. ....(working with ref files is a good thing also)

pm should be divided in several parts so a few persons can do final touches under deadline pressures and printing. (if pm is integrated to ac, can i do that anymore?? mmm )

(whats small project for you could be a dog house for me btw)

Re: Teamwork : how to divvy up the workspaces?

TomWaltz — Mon, 29 Aug 2005 13:23:45 GMT

Rakela wrote:
In Archicad, I find that you cannot divide work in the traditional way: one person doing schedules, one person doing interior elevations, one person doing plans.... they are all too inter-related.
i think that small project should be taken by only one person .....and have other team members to do quality control, do details, cut and paste in pm, check schedules, etc. ....(working with ref files is a good thing also)

pm should be divided in several parts so a few persons can do final touches under deadline pressures and printing. (if pm is integrated to ac, can i do that anymore?? mmm )

(whats small project for you could be a dog house for me btw)

That is a good point. A single person should be able to handle a greater volume of work in Archicad .... and it would be SO nice if Plotmaker could be teamworked as well!

Re: Teamwork : how to divvy up the workspaces?

Anonymous — Mon, 29 Aug 2005 13:41:27 GMT

Rakela wrote:
i think that small project should be taken by only one person .....and have other team members to do quality control, do details, cut and paste in pm, check schedules, etc. ....(working with ref files is a good thing also)

Works are never linear so we use to prepare the sharing of EACH file —SMALLER OR BIGGER— at the beginning at the project to be ready at the moment when it is essential.

Then the teams can grow bigger and lose according to the deadline and the LOT of "small" works necessary to finish documents.

Re: Teamwork : how to divvy up the workspaces?

Erika Epstein — Mon, 29 Aug 2005 13:51:14 GMT

Tom, Frédéric et al,

Thank you for your help. I was also wondering, do you find that your strategy changes as projects progress from the beginning design stages through construction documents? Granted the distinction between these are now blurred since Archicad.

Re: Teamwork : how to divvy up the workspaces?

Anonymous — Mon, 29 Aug 2005 14:17:56 GMT

Erika wrote:
I was also wondering, do you find that your strategy changes as projects progress from the beginning design stages through construction documents? Granted the distinction between these are now blurred since Archicad.

Yes the strategy change according to the specificity of the phases of design and of the proximity of the deadline…

Even if work is faster than with the "hand", even if we need to be fewer to do the same work, even if the work doing with ArchiCAD look like "finish" from the very start each phase of design has its role.

It is —for me…— not a good idea to try not to do them.

Each phase of design don't have the same need in drawing and definition. The more i approach to the "construction" the more i need details which are specific to this particular construction.

In teamworks, we need to be more rigorous in work and more flexible in the evolution of the team…

Re: Teamwork : how to divvy up the workspaces?

TomWaltz — Mon, 29 Aug 2005 14:19:53 GMT

Erika wrote:
Tom, Frédéric et al,

Thank you for your help. I was also wondering, do you find that your strategy changes as projects progress from the beginning design stages through construction documents? Granted the distinction between these are now blurred since Archicad.

Our office keeps jobs single-user as long as possible, since Teamworking is pretty simple to set up. It's often two people in the beginning, with 5 or 6 later on. When it's only 2, they kind of handle their own workflow. Once the main production crew comes in, I come in with my rule book and make sure people are not changing workspace 10 times a day....

Re: Teamwork : how to divvy up the workspaces?

Laszlo Nagy — Mon, 29 Aug 2005 17:29:10 GMT

We have not actually started using Teamwork, because we are just upgrading our office to AC9.
What I will probably suggest to my fellow collegues is to divide by either occupying various layer, or by occupying various Section/Elevation/Detail Windows.
With the first, one guy can put all the annotation to its layer, another one can create dimensions etc.
With thel latter, we can say I am working on the Floor Plan, you are doing the elevations. If I changed something in the model, I send my changes and you receive them.
Of course we try to keep the projects as one-person jobs as long as possible.

Re: Teamwork : how to divvy up the workspaces?

TomWaltz — Mon, 29 Aug 2005 17:51:11 GMT

laszlonagy wrote:
We have not actually started using Teamwork, because we are just upgrading our office to AC9.
What I will probably suggest to my fellow collegues is to divide by either occupying various layer, or by occupying various Section/Elevation/Detail Windows.
With the first, one guy can put all the annotation to its layer, another one can create dimensions etc.
With thel latter, we can say I am working on the Floor Plan, you are doing the elevations. If I changed something in the model, I send my changes and you receive them.
Of course we try to keep the projects as one-person jobs as long as possible.

A few things to keep in mind about Teamwork and signing out:

If you sign out a floor and layers, you own the 3D elements. You can edit these 3D elements in any view, including sections you do not own.
If you sign out a section, you only control the marker, and the annotation in the section, regardless of layer.
If you sign out a detail, you control the entire content of the detail window, regardless of layers.

One bug to be aware of: If you place a label in a section ("Label Element"), the person who turns the label on permanently owns it, and no one else can change it. The workaround is to turn the label back off, then turn it back on again.

Re: Teamwork : how to divvy up the workspaces?

Laszlo Nagy — Mon, 29 Aug 2005 18:07:38 GMT

TomWaltz wrote:
A few things to keep in mind about Teamwork and signing out:
If you sign out a floor and layers, you own the 3D elements. You can edit these 3D elements in any view, including sections you do not own.

If you sign out a section, you only control the marker, and the annotation in the section, regardless of layer.

If you sign out a detail, you control the entire content of the detail window, regardless of layers.

Thanks for the info. I am sure it will be useful for others as well as for me.
In Section, we usually do not change anything, do not try to modify elements, only add 2D stuff to the model. So this will not cause problems for our office.
Thanks again.

Re: Teamwork : how to divvy up the workspaces?

Rakela Raul — Mon, 29 Aug 2005 18:11:37 GMT

do not try to modify elements, only add 2D stuff to the model.

good for you!!

Re: Teamwork : how to divvy up the workspaces?

Erika Epstein — Tue, 30 Aug 2005 14:48:44 GMT

Thank you everyone for all your help. Your guidance is just what I was looking for.

Tom, when are you publishing your Rules Book?
Does it come with thumbscrews?

Re: Teamwork : how to divvy up the workspaces?

TomWaltz — Tue, 30 Aug 2005 14:58:19 GMT

Erika wrote:
Thank you everyone for all your help. Your guidance is just what I was looking for.

Tom, when are you publishing your Rules Book?
Does it come with thumbscrews?

Erica, funny you should ask.... I have seriously thought about cutting out the company-specific parts and trying to publish it once I am done.... maybe through Objects Online.

Also included will be a mouse driver for delivering high-voltage shocks to people who do not comply.

Re: Teamwork : how to divvy up the workspaces?

Anonymous — Tue, 30 Aug 2005 15:08:25 GMT

TomWaltz wrote:
Also included will be a mouse driver for delivering high-voltage shocks to people who do not comply.

Like in "Orange Mecanique"…

Aaaaah, the rule and the spirit of the rule…

I also think about this —or worse…—, sometime when i redraw elements —for the n+1 time…— in the file

Re: Teamwork : how to divvy up the workspaces?

Erika Epstein — Tue, 30 Aug 2005 15:46:22 GMT

TomWaltz wrote:
I have seriously thought about cutting out the company-specific parts and trying to publish it once I am done.... maybe through Objects Online.

I hope you do. A proper actual-experience guide for teamwork is much needed.