topic Re: Where to scale and why? in Modeling

Where to scale and why?

Anonymous — Wed, 02 May 2007 14:30:11 GMT

Hi

I've noticed that there are two ways to scale a drawing on a layout.

1. In the view settings.

2. In the drawing settings.

Which is correct and why?

TIA

Adri

Re: Where to scale and why?

TomWaltz — Wed, 02 May 2007 15:56:21 GMT

In the View Settings will adjust your text/dimensions to print at the size you assigned to them (for example, 8 points).

In the Drawing Setting, it's more of a photographic scaling, just enlarging or reducing everything.

Re: Where to scale and why?

Anonymous — Thu, 03 May 2007 08:44:09 GMT

The problem is that the only element that is scalable is the text tool yet there are a number of other tools that produce text eg dimensions, zone stamps, labels etc.

If you have a large floorplan you may well have the need to show this in different scales so how do you handle the way these non scalable text elements get screwed up when you change the scale in the view? Isn't the only way to avoid these problems to set your scale in the drawing settings?

TIA

Adri

Re: Where to scale and why?

Link — Thu, 03 May 2007 12:05:47 GMT

Typically you create two different views of the floor plan, one at each scale, then import those views as drawings onto a layout.

More obscurely, if you wanted to plot views, you have the option to set the text and markers according to a Fixed Size (the original size) or Resized to Plotting Scale (the scaled size).

I'd go with the former anyday. Predictable and consistent.

Cheers,
Link.

Re: Where to scale and why?

Anonymous — Thu, 03 May 2007 13:30:38 GMT

I'm not plotting views.

I'm going from model to view to drawing on a layout.

The problem is that there's only the text tool that scales. Try putting a zone stamp onto your model which you're working on at 1:50 and then putting that area into two views one at 1:100 and another at 1:200. The text for the zone stamp goes bananas.

Same goes for labels, dimensions etc.

Cheers

Adri

Re: Where to scale and why?

Anonymous — Thu, 03 May 2007 15:51:05 GMT

The simple answer is that the best practice is to set the scale in the view and not override it in the drawing/layout. There may be some exceptions to this but I haven't seen any.For multiple scales from the same viewpoint, make multiple views.

Re: Where to scale and why?

Anonymous — Thu, 03 May 2007 16:28:42 GMT

Nobody so far has commented on the issues about scaling and zone stamps etc...

Could you look at my previous post and comment please. I must be missing something...

Thanks

Adri

Re: Where to scale and why?

TomWaltz — Thu, 03 May 2007 17:02:50 GMT

adri wrote:
Nobody so far has commented on the issues about scaling and zone stamps etc...

Could you look at my previous post and comment please. I must be missing something...

I think your missing the general concept of "scale".

Dimensions, Markers, and Zones DO change size, based on your current working scale. Text CAN, depending on how its units are set.

The idea is that the text, zones, markers, or dimensions will always print the same size regardless of what scale you are working at.

Re: Where to scale and why?

Anonymous — Thu, 03 May 2007 20:23:45 GMT

OK Tom

But my first question is: Why have different abilities for tools that all produce textual output?

Secondly, if you place an 8mx8m room on a plan and put in a default zone stamp at 1:100. Then for some reason you have to use the same plan at 1:500 the result is seen in the attache pic. I know that you can go back in and change the text size but it may (and is) be alot of work to change on a large project. That's why I have users choosing to "scale" (and I think I understand the term) at the drawing settings stage. It doesn't seem right to me either but they have a good argument for doing it there, don't they?

TIA

Adri

Re: Where to scale and why?

Anonymous — Thu, 03 May 2007 20:38:04 GMT

So you want your zone stamp to be the same size relative to your room, and still be able to read it at 1/5th it's original size?

Re: Where to scale and why?

TomWaltz — Thu, 03 May 2007 22:29:51 GMT

adri wrote:
OK Tom

But my first question is: Why have different abilities for tools that all produce textual output?

Text has the ability in case you use it to make signage.

Secondly, if you place an 8mx8m room on a plan and put in a default zone stamp at 1:100. Then for some reason you have to use the same plan at 1:500 the result is seen in the attache pic. I know that you can go back in and change the text size but it may (and is) be alot of work to change on a large project. That's why I have users choosing to "scale" (and I think I understand the term) at the drawing settings stage. It doesn't seem right to me either but they have a good argument for doing it there, don't they?i

Why would you change the size?

When you print them out, the two zones will look the same.

Are you new to drafting? One major goal is to have all text print the same size and to not show too much information at any one scale. If you have that much info at 1:100, it should not be on the 1:500 plans.

Re: Where to scale and why?

Aussie John — Thu, 03 May 2007 22:44:28 GMT

text in any object ( and a zone is a type of object) can be coded to proportionally size with a change in scale eg

i=i*original scale/A_

where i= text height
A_=view scale

Re: Where to scale and why?

Anonymous — Fri, 04 May 2007 14:06:32 GMT

Signage in Archicad? 🙂

Anyway...

what you're saying is that a zone stamp that is correctly sized at 1:100 should be turned off through layer management if the same plan were required at 1:500?

Aussie John. Where would you insert this code to scale text?

Adri

Re: Where to scale and why?

Laura Yanoviak — Fri, 04 May 2007 15:28:03 GMT

adri wrote:
what you're saying is that a zone stamp that is correctly sized at 1:100 should be turned off through layer management if the same plan were required at 1:500?

huh? No -- this is why the text/symbol is sized with the display/drawing scale -- so that the same stamp can be used at all scales

adri wrote:
Aussie John. Where would you insert this code to scale text?

This code goes in the GDL script of the stamp object.

Re: Where to scale and why?

Anonymous — Fri, 04 May 2007 16:28:12 GMT

Laura wrote:
huh? No -- this is why the text/symbol is sized with the display/drawing scale -- so that the same stamp can be used at all scales

the same zone stamp used at all scales will either big too big or too small for some and fine for others... ie it does not have the same ability as the text tool to be 'scaled' rather than 'fixed', or have i missed an option in the zone/label/dimension settings??

adri is right, if you make a zone/label/dimension in 1:100 and require that to be also visible in 1:500 or 1:20 the text size of this zone/label/dimension relative to the stuff around it will be too big or too small... it cannot behave like the text tool can... so we end up with duplicate info sometimes if we want this zone/label/dimension to be used in views of drawings that will be printed at more than 1 scale....

to further clarify why this would be necessary... say i have a flat at 1:50 that i've used a zone on it. then i have a general floor plan at 1:100 showing all the flats.... i want that zone to be readable at both scales and not be too big so as to be over the walls or too small so that it is not readable. i can do that with normal text but not with the zone (or label, or dimension)

Re: Where to scale and why?

Dennis Lee — Fri, 04 May 2007 17:12:04 GMT

There is an object called 'Super Zone' by Tom Waltz - that addresses this problem, and it's really good.

Re: Where to scale and why?

Laura Yanoviak — Fri, 04 May 2007 17:58:09 GMT

Tom's website

We use the Super Zone, which can display differently at different scales (although the stamp remains the same "relative size", you can move it to different locations at different display scales and have an alternate Room Name (for abbreviations) -- it also allows for different parameters to display at different scales: area, occupancy load, room size, etc.).

Re: Where to scale and why?

Anonymous — Fri, 04 May 2007 22:37:06 GMT

Keep in mind that the size you are specifying for the text in objects, labels, and text element is the PRINTED SIZE. It will look different at different scales, but if you put three different scales of the same area on a layout the building elements will be different sizes, but the text will be the same size in each drawing.

Did that help?

Re: Where to scale and why?

Anonymous — Fri, 04 May 2007 22:37:31 GMT

Re: Where to scale and why?

Anonymous — Fri, 04 May 2007 22:43:39 GMT