topic Re: Had to post this for you guys... in Modeling

Had to post this for you guys...

Anonymous — Tue, 15 Mar 2005 03:03:15 GMT

Posted from a chief architect discussion:

Hey Cole
Where I come from Real Builder/Contractors dont use Archicad only Marketing companies and architects do.We come up against competitors using AC all the time.Soon, you'll find theres more to puting projects together than just 3D Modeling and hoping for the best. If you need real answers Track down real clients. Successful Builders/Contractors wont advertise over the net. HTH

Re: Had to post this for you guys...

Anonymous — Tue, 15 Mar 2005 11:45:06 GMT

If they are happy using Chief Architect then let em be.

But as im sure Djordje and others will highlight, its not the CAD software that will produce good detailing or good designs, its the person using it.
Garbage in / Garbage out and all that

Re: Had to post this for you guys...

TomWaltz — Tue, 15 Mar 2005 13:49:40 GMT

Also note: Builders, not Architects.

Re: Had to post this for you guys...

gpowless — Tue, 15 Mar 2005 15:45:14 GMT

LOL....

When I first started my practice, I evaluated what was on the market. Chief Architect was a cheap buy and was tempting until I worked with a demo. I found you had to constantly trick the software to get it to do what should have been easy.

I also tried Softplan and found it to be a nightmare trying to get roofs to join. I hated the 2D projection.

Forget Autocad! I have always disliked their simple from the table to the screen paradigm. 3d was only offered as an option because their clients asked for it and support was virtually non-existent.

Then I found and evaluated ArchiCad. I was impressed first by the retailer who offered me a free "get-you=going" seminar. Then they threw a few tools to make it a little nicer. Then they offered me the first major upgrade for free. Not to mention that the demo of ArchiCad allowed me to design and draw the way that I was used to. Having had years of manual draughting experience, I was impressed that I could quickly produce the 3d details that I needed. I was impressed at the automation of many tasks. Having also trained years ago on a Computer Vision mainframe system, I was also impressed with the ability to visualize the result. Today the rendering and presentation catch most of my clients by surprise and my reputation for detail (made easy) keep many coming back and making recommendations to other clients.

ArchiCad does have its limits....so does Microstation at over twice the cost. But it is our imagination and our skill at using the tools that makes the profession. Having trained as a carpenter in my early years, I realized that a hammer is useless in an unskilled hand. In a skilled one it can hammer nails, screw in screws pry things, push things, cut things, decorate things and even open a beer at the end of a hot day.....As a professional, we buy the tools that make our work easier....and I for one would not buy a handsaw when a cabinetmakers table saw is what I really need to make cabinets reliably.

Re: Had to post this for you guys...

Ignacio Azpiazu — Tue, 15 Mar 2005 23:32:43 GMT

'Real builders/contractors' especially in residential tend to be happiest without drawings, and actually take pride on the fact that they can make a building starting from a napkin sketch (which is to say that that they'd rather do without any detailing and specs at all and build things the way they are used to, which certainly makes a lot of sense).
My sense is that Chief Architect is the computer version of the builder's napkin drawing, and obviously there is a huge market for that (larger than for ArchiCAD, just as there are way more houses built out of napkin sketches than from thought-thru designs). It is a very different market, though: if you need ArchiCAD Chief Architect just won't do, and if Chief Architect will do it then you definitely don't need ArchiCAD.

Re: Had to post this for you guys...

Djordje — Fri, 18 Mar 2005 16:34:25 GMT

TomWaltz wrote:
Also note: Builders, not Architects.

Builders have only one gospel: cost down, profits up. Quality? What is that? Livability? Usability? Naaah ... architectural mumbo jumbo.

Oh, BTW, I work for a construction company 😉

Re: Had to post this for you guys...

Anonymous — Mon, 17 Oct 2005 14:04:01 GMT

TomWaltz wrote:
Also note: Builders, not Architects.

Tom,
I realize this was posted some time ago but as I have been rereading all the "residential" threads I ran across your reply and I have to ask:

What exactly is your point?
Are you suggesting that ArchiCAD is only for Architects???

I'm currently lobbying for some more "residential" related support from Graphisoft. I think we should do everything we can to capture this segement of the construction market. Getting more "builders" involved in ArchiCAD could greatly enhance many product features across the board...

Dan K

Re: Had to post this for you guys...

TomWaltz — Mon, 17 Oct 2005 14:24:04 GMT

I'm not really sure. In re-reading the thread, I think I meant that builders had different needs than architects, and would be evaluating based on different criteria.

Re: Had to post this for you guys...

__archiben — Mon, 17 Oct 2005 22:34:50 GMT

sounds more like it was written by BDC to me . . .

~/archiben

Re: Had to post this for you guys...

Rob — Tue, 18 Oct 2005 00:08:03 GMT

Ben,

That's what I thought reading that. It's exactly the same syntax of sentences. I think that's BDC for sure.

Re: Had to post this for you guys...

TomWaltz — Tue, 18 Oct 2005 01:42:45 GMT

~/archiben wrote:
sounds more like it was written by BDC to me . . .

~/archiben

Huh? Am I missing something?

Re: Had to post this for you guys...

Anonymous — Tue, 18 Oct 2005 15:58:24 GMT

TomWaltz wrote:
~/archiben wrote:
sounds more like it was written by BDC to me . . .

~/archiben
Huh? Am I missing something?

Tom,

If you don't know BDC, then all you're missing is the racing pulse and gnashing teeth that result from reading the trollings.

Re: Had to post this for you guys...

Anonymous — Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:50:55 GMT

lol...Cole if yall thinq Walmart aan Mobilee homes is yer notishun of arkeytecture GOD bless....

Re: Had to post this for you guys...

Anonymous — Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:53:42 GMT

lol...Cole if yall thinq Walmart aan Mobilee homes is yer notishun of arkeytecture GOD bless....

..as a true arkie-tect living and working for a large general contractor just miles from the center of Wallyworld I'm afraid I might resemble this remark!

QUESTION:.. if it weren't for the Walmarts and Microsofts of this world and the designers and builders who serve them; Where would the wealth come from to support the "real" architects and builders.......... of all those Mac-Mansions?

'Real builders/contractors' especially in residential tend to be happiest without drawings

My experience with "real builders" on the other end of the spectrum is they want everything detailed down to the last screw and signed off by Thee Owner in triplicate. Then when the price come in over the "budget" (established by dreamworks™)........they will then tell you how everything can be done better, cheaper, and faster if you would just redraw everything ......... in a week......for no extra cost.

Dave

Re: Had to post this for you guys...

Anonymous — Thu, 20 Oct 2005 01:49:38 GMT

LOL..Have you figured a way to get the data out of your clutch pencil yet?
By the time you guys wrap up your model and Cds its usually too late to collaborate-then again you have to want to collaborate?...lets See " Designed by Architects for Architects"I think thats how it use to go...
One day you'll wake up to the fact its not just the model...but the dynamic data at the different stages..HTH

Re: Had to post this for you guys...

Scott Davis — Thu, 20 Oct 2005 03:37:01 GMT

BDC wrote:
the fact its not just the model...but the dynamic data at the different stages..HTH

Funny, thats the most intelligent thing I've heard from you. Problem is, you don't get it...thats what Building Information Modeling/Virtual Building is all about! A model is not just a model, its a collection of living data that constantly changes from the inception of the design throughout the life of the building.

Re: Had to post this for you guys...

Anonymous — Thu, 20 Oct 2005 04:10:18 GMT

Scott wrote:
BDC wrote:
the fact its not just the model...but the dynamic data at the different stages..HTH
A model is not just a model, its a collection of living data that constantly changes from the inception of the design throughout the life of the building.

Hey Scott,get a real job on site or in a building company....LOL living data...
Dynamic data is used in forecasting and profit analysis,we nail your designs-HTH.