topic Re: chimney in Modeling

chimney

Anonymous — Sun, 03 Dec 2006 19:36:53 GMT

Hello!
I am using Archicad 9 but i am beginner so please dont be offended with this request.
I am drawing a wall. Lets say it's THICKNESS is 50 cm.
Now I want to make a chimneys in it (different size).
I want them to be seen on a plan view and section view also, that I will be able to print those two.
Best regards
Mar

Re: chimney

Anonymous — Sun, 03 Dec 2006 21:04:49 GMT

Mar,
If you mean that you want to make a flue in a 50 cm thick wall
then draw two pieces of 50 cm wall with a gap between them
the width of your flue. Then draw two walls with a thickness
of say 10 cm, or what ever you want the flue wall thickness to be,
flush with the 50 cm walls that fills the gap on both sides.
Switch the sides of the reference lines of the thinner walls
until you get all the walls to clean-up in 3D. In 2D one of
the thin walls will not clean up with the thick walls
so you will have to draw some fills with the same fill
pattern as your walls to mask the joints. Remember
to bring the fills to the front.
Peter Devlin

Re: chimney

Anonymous — Sun, 03 Dec 2006 21:31:14 GMT

Thank you!
This seems so obvious now, but from the other hand very frustrating that there is no other way to make it.
I thought that there could be something like a tool for that!
Thanks again,
Regards
Mar

Re: chimney

Link — Sun, 03 Dec 2006 21:35:33 GMT

You'd think this could be accomplished using a polygonal wall by putting a hole in it, just like we do with fills, but that'd be too easy! I thought we might even be able to use that method to get a U shaped wall and then use a single wall to fill in the top side of the flue. That would avoid needing to use any fills, but then the straight wall doesn't show up in 3D!

Cheers,
Link.

Re: chimney

Anonymous — Sun, 03 Dec 2006 21:45:29 GMT

Both of you guys showed just a one flue.
We all know that there are many flues in wall with chimney.
How that should be done?
I guess the same as Peter described it, but then still there is a huge problem with fills.
I think this should be resolved in a next versions of ArchiCad
Regards

Re: chimney

Anonymous — Sun, 03 Dec 2006 21:48:09 GMT

Yes Link, it always puzzled me why a polygonal wall could not be made
to have a hole in it. I have even tried to make a "C" shaped
polygonal wall then close the gap but then the hole disappears.
Peter Devlin

Re: chimney

Link — Sun, 03 Dec 2006 21:49:27 GMT

We all know that there are many flues in wall with chimney.
How that should be done?

I'd probably use a slab depending on the situation. You can put as many holes as you like in a slab.

Cheers,
Link.

Re: chimney

Anonymous — Sun, 03 Dec 2006 22:10:07 GMT

I haven't tried it but could you use a composite for the flue, with two outer skins and a cavity, that is the same total width as the wall adjacent. If composite's skins are set to same priority as the wall (with a different priority for the cavity) do they clean up?

Re: chimney

David Shorter — Sun, 03 Dec 2006 22:10:08 GMT

Or you could use the polywall and then use a column with an empty fill to cut the holes. Columns cut walls by default. Hide the layer the col in on in section and you only see the wall and the cut.
Just another approach!!

Re: chimney

Link — Sun, 03 Dec 2006 22:13:05 GMT

Peter wrote:
Yes Link, it always puzzled me why a polygonal wall could not be made
to have a hole in it. I have even tried to make a "C" shaped
polygonal wall then close the gap but then the hole disappears.
Peter Devlin

Me too mate. I have submitted this as a bug to GS.

Cheers,
Link.

Re: chimney

Anonymous — Sun, 03 Dec 2006 22:19:40 GMT

s2art wrote:
I haven't tried it but could you use a composite for the flue, with two outer skins and a cavity, that is the same total width as the wall adjacent. If composite's skins are set to same priority as the wall (with a different priority for the cavity) do they clean up?

OK so I tried my method, and it works, just with a couple of lines added in 2D. If materials are the same on inside and outside face there should be no line at the juction on the elevations either.

Re: chimney

Anonymous — Sun, 03 Dec 2006 22:56:42 GMT

Here is a way that does not involve any 2D fills or lines
and it looks correct in 3D.
The dashed lines in the attached image are for clarity.
Peter Devlin

Re: chimney

Link — Sun, 03 Dec 2006 23:03:04 GMT

Good job Peter, you've successfully worked around the workaround!

Cheers,
Link.

Re: chimney

Anonymous — Sun, 03 Dec 2006 23:13:01 GMT

Link wrote:
Good job Peter, you've successfully worked around the workaround!

Cheers,
Link.

Good job but still many "ifs"

And what if there are many flues next to each other?
What if the chimney wall is not rectangular but square?
Best regards
Mar

Re: chimney

Link — Sun, 03 Dec 2006 23:21:55 GMT

Well you can use the same technique right?

Cheers,
Link.

Re: chimney

__archiben — Mon, 04 Dec 2006 00:15:25 GMT

dpistons wrote:
And what if there are many flues next to each other?
What if the chimney wall is not rectangular but square?
Best regards

this workaround is fine for cast concrete fireplaces/chimneys. but what is your chimney going to be constructed from in real life? you don't get massive blobs if it were brick, for example....

to quote the master of BIM methodology and semantics:

"build it like they build it except when you can't"

Re: chimney

Laszlo Nagy — Tue, 05 Dec 2006 22:49:59 GMT

David wrote:
Or you could use the polywall and then use a column with an empty fill to cut the holes. Columns cut walls by default. Hide the layer the col in on in section and you only see the wall and the cut.
Just another approach!!

I like this.
You can even place the Column with the empty fill on a layer that is defined to be wireframe. If you make its view lines the same as those of the Wall, nothing will be visible in 3D and the Column does not have to be on a hidden Layer.

Re: chimney

Aussie John — Wed, 06 Dec 2006 01:43:23 GMT

My vote is for the column solution ( good tip David). Easy good way to put a recess into a wall.
Maybe an object saved as a column type and using the tube command would give a flue which changes direction.

Re: chimney

Aussie John — Wed, 06 Dec 2006 01:57:39 GMT

On a related note a wall will knock out a any part of a beam element which passes through it regardless if the wall is visible. If the intersection priority is set low on the wall - the wall will knock out.

Good for rebates in a wall although doesnt appear to recognise holes in the beam

Re: chimney

Anonymous — Wed, 06 Dec 2006 02:24:07 GMT

This column solution is pretty slick.
You can have the flue change directions
by inserting angled column segments
and straight segments so that you have
the way a flue often is built into a chimney.
Peter Devlin