topic Re: Drafting with ArchiCAD in Modeling

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Anonymous — Wed, 15 Mar 2006 19:07:50 GMT

Maybe,is better 2d drawing in archicad,because you dont need to redrawing for 3d, but i insist, that ONLY for 2d drawing face of the project,autocad is faster,even for a non expert user.Simple interface ,basics commants for 2d.
In the 3D-modeling stage, it is sure that Archicad is the king.

Anyway,it is just an opinion.

Re: ArchiCAD post rendering

Anonymous — Fri, 17 Mar 2006 15:48:31 GMT

Dekanat wrote:
Maybe,is better 2d drawing in archicad,because you dont need to redrawing for 3d, but i insist, that ONLY for 2d drawing face of the project,autocad is faster,even for a non expert user.Simple interface ,basics commants for 2d.
In the 3D-modeling stage, it is sure that Archicad is the king.

Anyway,it is just an opinion.

This is completely OT but I have to respond. I have had quite the opposite experience. Most of the AutoCAD users I have known who switched to ArchiCAD end up preferring ArchiCAD for 2D (assuming they actually learn all the snaps, locks, constraints and other essential techniques).

I have worked with one firm whose practice is almost exclusively 2D in ArchiCAD and they are very productive.

I also observed at the CAD Top Gun contest at the AEC Systems show, which is basically 2D drafting, that ArchiCAD beats AutoCAD consistently. David Marlatt, an expert ArchiCAD user, won one year. And another year I saw an ArchiCAD neophyte (about 2 weeks experience) come in second in a field of advanced AutoCAD users.

I am working right now with two firms that have just switched from AutoCAD and everyone who has reached a fair proficiency with ArchiCAD clearly prefers it for drafting. The most advanced among them hate it when they occasionally have to go back into AutoCAD.

I have known exceptions to this but they are generally masters of AutoLisp or otherwise highly advanced users who have really customized ACAD to their specific needs.

Re: Drafting with ArchiCAD

Anonymous — Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:21:43 GMT

@Mattthew

Thank you Mathew.
You let know every time very helpful things I can have never contact.

Re: Drafting with ArchiCAD

TomWaltz — Mon, 20 Mar 2006 11:53:47 GMT

I've had users fight me tooth-and-nail on Archicad in general who absolutely loved its 2D drafting capabiltiies.

Re: Drafting with ArchiCAD

Anonymous — Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:17:43 GMT

I just can't resist adding my two-penny worth to this thread, at the risk of receiving howls of protest!

I have 4 years experience in Archicad, and before that 10 years in Autocad. Perhaps like Matthew's 'highly advanced customers' I had the program tailored to my specific needs. But for fast drafting - there was nothing to beat it. I had 'autosnap' switched off, and all my snaps programmed on Function keys (the way I was taught to use it). Then a few choice lisp routines like 'zoom out' or 'offset to a layer'. This made it a whizz - I could practically draft with my eyes shut (no nasty comments please!) Left hand stays on the keyboard (no 'control' keys required), right hand on the mouse, mouse never strays from the drawing.

Archicad has loads of good points, but you just can't crack out a quick drawing - and plot it! - anything like as fast. Selection is more difficult. Even deleting objects is slow. Too much time is wasted taking the mouse away from the drawing area to select a different 'mode'.

I still use Autocad at home, where I don't have the luxury of unlimited office hours to spend getting something done!

Re: Drafting with ArchiCAD

Petros Ioannou — Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:23:10 GMT

Dekanat,
I have to disagree with you.
Make the following test in both apps:
A. draw a rectangle and fill it with a hatch
BA. then open a rectangular hole in the hatch.
In AC you will need 2 moves. ( 1. a fill with an outline, 2. select the fill, draw another one inside it)
In Acad you need 5! (1 for the rectangular. 2 for the hatch, 3. for the rectangle inside. 4. delete the old hatch. 5 draw a new hatch.

I have to mention the BIG difference in text handling (real printed mm fonts fs "trying to figure out the correct size" scaled drawing fonts.
There is also a big advantage of AC snap points (specially in dividing an element) over Autocad's divide command.
Creating a custom hatch? A new linotype?
Curving a segment of a polyline in Acadia? how easy and accurate is it?
And the list goes on...
In my opinion there are plenty of tools in Acad but how many of them are really useful for an Architect? And don't forget 2da isn't only about lines.(Annotation , symbols , lines)

I am not saying that AutoCAD is weak in 2d, on the contrary. It all comes up to the skills of the user....

Petros

Re: Drafting with ArchiCAD

Ignacio Azpiazu — Tue, 21 Mar 2006 04:02:19 GMT

I am not saying it is necessarily this case but I've seen a lot of it: a disgracefully high proportion of ArchiCAD beginners out there are just not aware of the drawing constraints (the parallel, perpendicular, bisecting, division, distance, and all that), let alone their shortcuts. Which is like trying to draft with a hand tied at the back and the other one holding a paint roller.

Re: Drafting with ArchiCAD

Anonymous — Tue, 21 Mar 2006 04:23:48 GMT

Ignacio wrote:
...like trying to draft with a hand tied at the back and the other one holding a paint roller.

ala Rolf Harris. "Can you tell what it is yet?"

Re: Drafting with ArchiCAD

Srinivas — Tue, 21 Mar 2006 06:40:17 GMT

Dear all,

Here in India we come up with a new concept to promote ArchiCAD. The Concept is Titled as "VB through 2D glasses". We compared how good ArchiCAD in terms of 2D with AutoCAD and the results are quite fascinating.

A floor plan is drafted on AutoCAD it took 260 mouse clicks and 26 min. for an average user to do that in AutoCAD with all the exterior dimensioning. The same floor plan when done in AC it took just 37 Mouse clicks and 11 min for a starter in ArchiCAD. Ofcourse for me it took less than 5 min. So, this way we are able to convince our customers to believe that ArchiCAD is good even in 2D.

So even when you compare ArchiCAD with AutoCAD even in terms of 2D you can increase your productivity by 40%.

cheers,
Srinivas

Re: Drafting with ArchiCAD

TomWaltz — Tue, 21 Mar 2006 11:45:58 GMT

Srinivas wrote:
A floor plan is drafted on AutoCAD it took 260 mouse clicks and 26 min. for an average user to do that in AutoCAD with all the exterior dimensioning. The same floor plan when done in AC it took just 37 Mouse clicks and 11 min for a starter in ArchiCAD. Ofcourse for me it took less than 5 min. So, this way we are able to convince our customers to believe that ArchiCAD is good even in 2D

Uh.... wow. That's a good one for the resellers to use!

Re: Drafting with ArchiCAD

Anonymous — Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:08:38 GMT

OK I should have said it depends what you're doing.

For generating a plan, i.e. drawing walls, placing doors and windows, jumping up to the next storey and back down again, there's nothing to beat Archicad.

But it's when you go on to the next level of detail, filling in the dpcs, the cavity closers, the lines of services, dotted lines to indicate something happening above, or below - all the real construction stuff. That's when it gets much slower.

Try this - a site layout: in Autocad, draw the centre line of a road, and another centre line meeting it at an angle. Now offset the kerb lines, and fillet the radii at the junctions. Join the lines up as polylines. Now offset the footpaths. Takes a couple of minutes. Now try it in Archicad. Of course all suggestions will be very welcome!

KEITH

Re: Drafting with ArchiCAD

Eduardo Rolon — Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:04:10 GMT

Keith wrote:
Try this - a site layout: in Autocad, draw the centre line of a road, and another centre line meeting it at an angle.

Same procedure in AC and do ->edit ->fillet

Keith wrote:
Join the lines up as polylines.

Not necessary in AC if you used the polyline tool first which you can fillet once it is drawn

Keith wrote:
Now offset the footpaths.

1) select the Polyline tool
2) select the multiple offset tool
3) activate the magic wand
4) offset to your liking

Keith wrote:
Takes a couple of minutes. Now try it in Archicad.

takes a couple of seconds… because in AutoCAD you cannot change the Offset distance once selected and with the Multiple Offset in AC you can.

Re: Drafting with ArchiCAD

TomWaltz — Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:04:02 GMT

ejrolon wrote:
takes a couple of seconds… because in AutoCAD you cannot change the Offset distance once selected and with the Multiple Offset in AC you can.

I was thinking all the same things as ejrolon. This sounds like a pretty trivial task in Archicad. Offsets are really easy to do (though they are tricky to learn).

As I often joke, if it's so hard to do, I should tell my staff to stop doing it so easily.

Re: Drafting with ArchiCAD

Anonymous — Tue, 21 Mar 2006 23:36:37 GMT

TomWaltz wrote:
ejrolon wrote:
takes a couple of seconds… because in AutoCAD you cannot change the Offset distance once selected and with the Multiple Offset in AC you can.
I was thinking all the same things as ejrolon. This sounds like a pretty trivial task in Archicad. Offsets are really easy to do (though they are tricky to learn).

Me too. Only I followed the instruction a little more closely and started with the roadway centerlines as follows:

1. Select Line tool <L> (<> = keyboard input, capitals for clarity)
2. Centerlines crossing at intersection; click, click, click, click.
3. Edge of road: Offset tool <O>, spacebar click, <R>, <12'>
4. Select lines: click, click
5. Curb radius: Click corner (mouse down), pet palette - fillet (mouse up), <24'>
6. <esc> to deselect
7. Curb: Offset tool <O>, spacebar click, <R>, <6">

I used the line tool, but the polyline works about the same.

I didn't use a stopwatch but it definitely took less than 10 seconds (I estimate about 5-6 with no mistakes) assuming no design time of course (which could be hours of meetings and has nothing to do with software ).

In a few minutes I could add the site model with contours (assuming that I have a good survey to trace).

Re: Drafting with ArchiCAD

Djordje — Wed, 22 Mar 2006 02:50:56 GMT

Keith wrote:
But it's when you go on to the next level of detail, filling in the dpcs, the cavity closers, the lines of services, dotted lines to indicate something happening above, or below - all the real construction stuff. That's when it gets much slower.KEITH

Not.

Because you DON'T HAVE TO draft it (dotted lines, cavity closers ...) It comes with the placed elements (see one storey below, window/door parameters) and is editable on the fly.

The main problem is always between the driver's seat and the steering wheel.

Re: Drafting with ArchiCAD

Rakela Raul — Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:42:44 GMT

why should i buy ac to work 2d in the first place? it is a waste of software

Re: Drafting with ArchiCAD

Laura Yanoviak — Thu, 23 Mar 2006 23:42:08 GMT

...like all of those seats of ADT that are used soley for 2D drafting?

I was an AutoCAD user since '89 (Release 10). I used ArchiCAD for a couple of years back in '92 and '93, and have been back with ArchiCAD for the past year -- ArchiCAD 2D is superior to AutoCAD, you just have to become aquainted with the right tools (and it doesn't crash 2-3 times a day, which is the anticipated norm for AutoCAD)...

Re: Drafting with ArchiCAD

Eduardo Rolon — Thu, 23 Mar 2006 23:45:53 GMT

Rakela wrote:
why should i buy ac to work 2d in the first place? it is a waste of software

because Keith started it…

Re: Drafting with ArchiCAD

Anonymous — Fri, 24 Mar 2006 09:41:46 GMT

Hi all !

I need some help.

Next week, I have to give a presentation on ArchiCAD to a group of classmates (a territory that I have no idea; I didn't choose the topic). And I need to know 5 important reasons or benefits that will convince the class that ArchiCAD is the right tool for designing a cup to a home/room (for example).

From 1 to 5 how many stars will all of you give ArchiCAD compared to AutoCAD and some other CAD software ?

What are some important reasons or benefits of ArchiCAD ?

If I pass the assignment, I pay the beer...

In advance thanks for your time, and may God bless you all

Re: Drafting with ArchiCAD

Anonymous — Fri, 24 Mar 2006 10:05:43 GMT

This is what I tell my architect student's, when they come up with the "We learn 3D AC here but we will be employed by FlatCad offices, and have never learned to master AutoCad." (big question):

What you learn in ArchiCAD is to ride a bicycle. Master all the stunts (don´t know their name in english, sorry), till you do it automatically. You ride a bicycle, so you get there much faster.

Now 2d drafting in ArchiCAD is like using the bell in the bicycle. Some people use it a lot, others use it less, and some don't need it at all, because they are such expert riders. It is not essential to bicycle riding, but you are free to do it, and it does not take a big investment to learn how to.

If you get to a point that you have to migrate to FlatCad, and this FlatCad has a different interface, maybe (maybe) more streamlined and with more functions, you do not have to learn to ride a different bicycle, or a different vehicle. You are on foot again, walking slowly, and have a nice bell that also wisles.

Thus, learning to use this new bell will take you just a moment, because you already know how to use A bicycle bell, and after all, it is not that hard to master, for one who can do all those stunts with a bicycle.

Of course, there you will be, with a fancy bell in your hand, watching your former colleges wizzing by on their bikes...

Oh, one more thing

Keith wrote:
Left hand stays on the keyboard (no 'control' keys required), right hand on the mouse, mouse never strays from the drawing.

This is also doable with ArchCAD. Since version 9 (I think) you can program (and save) your keyboard shortcuts with only one key, no 'control' required.

Have fun (riding you bike or ringing your bell, whatever tickles you