topic Re: Merging Bldg. with ArchiTerra Site Model in Modeling

Merging Bldg. with ArchiTerra Site Model

Dave Jochum — Thu, 22 Jan 2004 01:22:52 GMT

What is the best (easiest/fastest/most accurate) method of correctly positioning (vertical elevation) a merged bldg. model into an ArchiTerra site model? As I've never worked with meshes, I'm not savy to the ins and outs of doing so. Any help appreciated.

Re: Merging Bldg. with ArchiTerra Site Model

Dave Jochum — Thu, 22 Jan 2004 01:31:16 GMT

I hit the send button on the previous post a little too quickly...

When merging two PLNs, one of the results is a merging of all layers from the two files. In the case of merging a building into a site model, it would be convenient if the building could come in on a single layer for easy selection and manipulation. Is there a clever workaround for this?

Re: Merging Bldg. with ArchiTerra Site Model

Jacek — Thu, 22 Jan 2004 03:59:41 GMT

Dave wrote:
Is there a clever workaround for this?

Hmm, One way would it to save the building as a module and then import it into the A-Terra file.
Another, and that could depend on how complex the building model is, would be to show all elements of the building model, do a select -either with a thick markee or with a 'select all' manual -Arrow tool, or Copy and 'Save selection Set' to a designated layer. and then paste it into a new file or directly into the A-Terra file. Keep it grouped.

You will see in 3-D or in section/elevation that the elevations of each file may not correspond, you can Drag/Elevate the building to the desired elevation.
-may not be clever, but sure a workaround the block and then some...

Jacek

Re: Merging Bldg. with ArchiTerra Site Model

Anonymous — Thu, 22 Jan 2004 04:25:38 GMT

The old fashioned way (and still the best in some circumstances) is to save the buildings as library parts (from the 3D model of course) and just place them into the terrain model. I have done this for whole subdivisions and urban planning models and it works beautifully.

The really good part is that when a building changes, just resave, replacing the old part, and the planning model will update automatically. (I'm going to have to check if publisher can save a 3D view as a library part. I don't think so, but it would be cool.)

Re: Merging Bldg. with ArchiTerra Site Model

Dave Jochum — Thu, 22 Jan 2004 07:43:53 GMT

Thanks jacek and Matthew for your ideas. The library part method seems to work well. I've not used modules before, but in reading up on them, you can only hotlink one story at a time, and in my case, I'd have to manage 6 hotlinks. Library management also becomes and issue. I don't really see a downside to the library part.

Re: Merging Bldg. with ArchiTerra Site Model

Dave Jochum — Thu, 22 Jan 2004 18:09:13 GMT

This is rather bizzare, but after creating a library part of my bldg. 3D model and placing it in the A-Terra site, I have a scale problem. In plan, the bldg. is fine, however in section the vertical scale is compressed about 7%. Any ideas?

Re: Merging Bldg. with ArchiTerra Site Model

Jacek — Thu, 22 Jan 2004 20:43:35 GMT

Dave wrote:
This is rather bizzare, but after creating a library part of my bldg. 3D model and placing it in the A-Terra site, I have a scale problem. In plan, the bldg. is fine, however in section the vertical scale is compressed about 7%. Any ideas?

Perhaps there is a connection with this problem?

http://www.graphisoft.com/community/archicad-talk/viewtopic.php?t=1322

Re: Merging Bldg. with ArchiTerra Site Model

Dave Jochum — Fri, 23 Jan 2004 06:08:35 GMT

Jacek wrote:
Perhaps there is a connection with this problem?

http://www.graphisoft.com/community/archicad-talk/viewtopic.php?t=1322

I suppose it's possible, though I don't see why one would assume so. Could you elaborate? The glitch is actually quite a nuisance, as every time the bldg. model changes, the library part scales differently (vertical dimension only). I have to take measurements, adjust the height, then reposition with respect to the terrain.

Re: Merging Bldg. with ArchiTerra Site Model

Fabrizio Diodati — Fri, 23 Jan 2004 10:45:29 GMT

In my opinion (and this is my suggestion), it's always better to do the contrary!
I mean, instead of merge the building in the terrain PLN file, merge the terrain into the building project as Hotlinked module.
If you have a project where there are more than one building (different ArchiCAD projects), the best way to handle the whole project is:

1. create a new empty document (for example call it "Final Project")
2. merge into this "Final Project" the Hotlinked Modules generated from all the others ArchiCAD files (from the PLN containing the different building and that one generated from the ArchiTerra project)
3. save this project

In this way, when you change something in the original/source files, the resulting "Final Project" will be automatically update once you open it.

Probably this procedure is just a bit boring for the building documents (because the hotlink modules works only on one story so you have to import each story of each bulding) but it's very fast for the ArchiTerra project (because usually it contains only one story).

Re: Merging Bldg. with ArchiTerra Site Model

Anonymous — Fri, 23 Jan 2004 13:13:02 GMT

The approach of merging modules would be very appealing if not for the stories problem. Even in a relatively level site different buildings are likely to have different reference elevations and floor to floor heights. This means that one has to figure out the offsets for each story of each building relative to the corresponding stories of the planning (overall) model. I had to do this once for a school campus and it was a pain in the neck. In that case it was worth it as it was the only way it could work, but for urban planning, community presentations and the like I prefer the placed object approach.

Regarding the vertical scaling problem: I haven't had this problem myself (yet) so I am wondering if it is a bug in 8.1. I used this technique a few months ago in version 8.0 and did not have any problem (except for using 8.0 ). I'll have to test it this weekend. I'll be doing some more work for the city so it will give me the perfect opportunity.

Dave, are you experiencing this with every building you save as an object? And, more to the point, does it happen the first time it is placed or only after modifications? I am at a bit of a loss to understand why it is happening, so some more detail would be helpful.

Re: Merging Bldg. with ArchiTerra Site Model

Fabrizio Diodati — Fri, 23 Jan 2004 13:29:51 GMT

Dear Matthew,

I fully agree with you!
Maybe this could be a new entry in the ArchiCAD wish list: the feature to handle a "multistory hotlink module".
If this should be possible, handling the level of the whole project (a multistory hotlink nodule) should be quite simple.

Re: Merging Bldg. with ArchiTerra Site Model

Anonymous — Fri, 23 Jan 2004 15:46:04 GMT

Or even just being able to publish the model as a library part.

Re: Merging Bldg. with ArchiTerra Site Model

Dave Jochum — Fri, 23 Jan 2004 19:20:22 GMT

Thanks for the input, Matthew and Fabrizio. In the project I'm dealing with at the moment, I only have one building--a three story house, though I have 5 AC "stories". I think Fabrizio's idea of hotlinking the AT file with the AC house is a good one, since the terrain is only one story. It would also allow me to produce all my work, 2D and 3D, from the one main file instead of two. Creating a library part of the house and placing in the terrain is very straightforward and would also be a good solution if it weren't for the scale problem.

Yes Matthew, the problem occurs every time the part is placed and is different each time. The discrepancy was greatest the first time I placed it. Initially I couldn't figure out why the building wasn't fitting the site, as it came in in the plan view to my hotspots perfectly. The vertical scale was off just enough to not be readily noticeable--about 6%. Subsequent updates are off 1-3%.

Re: Merging Bldg. with ArchiTerra Site Model

Anonymous — Mon, 26 Jan 2004 20:28:06 GMT

Dave

Dave wrote:
This is rather bizzare, but after creating a library part of my bldg. 3D model and placing it in the A-Terra site, I have a scale problem. In plan, the bldg. is fine, however in section the vertical scale is compressed about 7%. Any ideas?

Commenting out the line in the 3d GDL script might solve your problem, you will have to remember to do it each time you update the library part.

Change: (Near the top of the script)
MULZ zzyzx/20.44 (whatever the number is)

to:

!MULZ zzyzx/20.44

If you use hotlinked modules I highly reccomend that you set up the module export in Publisher, fast and only sends the layers you want to export making for smaller file sizes.

I hope this helps, regards,

Re: Merging Bldg. with ArchiTerra Site Model

Dave Jochum — Mon, 26 Jan 2004 21:20:37 GMT

Bill wrote:
Commenting out the line in the 3d GDL script might solve your problem, you will have to remember to do it each time you update the library part.

Change: (Near the top of the script)
MULZ zzyzx/20.44 (whatever the number is)

to:

!MULZ zzyzx/20.44

Bill, I haven't learned GDL yet. What you describe seems simple (though cumbersome if there are many updates), but I have no idea what it does. Could you elaborate for me?

Bill wrote:
If you use hotlinked modules I highly reccomend that you set up the module export in Publisher, fast and only sends the layers you want to export making for smaller file sizes.

I hope this helps, regards,

Thanks for that tip. The ability to eliminate importing a host of useless layers is very valuable.

Re: Merging Bldg. with ArchiTerra Site Model

Anonymous — Mon, 26 Jan 2004 22:33:58 GMT

John,

When ArchiCAD makes an object it writes a script of all the 3d stuff. By default it allows you to resize the object when you place it by changing the A & B values (width and height in plan) as well as the 3d Height (Z dimension) which uses a variable called zzyzx (why not C? ..... long story something back in the mists of time...)

So resizing or scaling is done by multiplying everything by a value, eg MULZ 0.5 = multiply everything vertically by half

or

MULZ zzyzx/originalsize ( newsize / originalsize = scale factor)

Commenting this line out (turning it into a comment so the computer ignores it by placing a ! at the begining) or deleting the line will mean that the object cannot be resized and will remain its original size. ArchiCAD sometimes gets the default size wrong.

wiser?

cheers

Re: Merging Bldg. with ArchiTerra Site Model

Dave Jochum — Tue, 27 Jan 2004 01:12:55 GMT

Bill wrote:
John,

When ArchiCAD makes an object...

cheers

My first GDL lesson! Thanks, Sam (Just kidding--my name is Dave)

Re: Merging Bldg. with ArchiTerra Site Model

Anonymous — Tue, 27 Jan 2004 03:17:21 GMT

Dave wrote:
My first GDL lesson! Thanks, Sam (Just kidding--my name is Dave)

Sorry Dave!

My bad ... toddler was crying from 12.30am 'til 3.00am last night

cheers

Bill

ps if linking through hotlinks you may find this sneaky workaround useful:

http://www.graphisoft.com/support/archicad/archiguide/multistoryhotlinks.html

Re: Merging Bldg. with ArchiTerra Site Model

Dave Jochum — Tue, 27 Jan 2004 04:36:15 GMT

Bill wrote:
... toddler was crying from 12.30am 'til 3.00am last night...

ps if linking through hotlinks you may find this sneaky workaround useful:

http://www.graphisoft.com/support/archicad/archiguide/multistoryhotlinks.html

I vaguely remember those days

Good to know there is a way to streamline the multi-story linking. For the current situation, I'm going to save the terrain as a module since it is on one story, and link back.

Thanks for the help.