topic Re: Zones in not shown in details in Modeling

Zones in not shown in details

Anonymous — Mon, 14 May 2007 19:27:05 GMT

We use the detail tool to create enlarged plans of the bathrooms offices...ect
Problem is when we use the detail tool we lose the Zone. Is there a setting I am missing somewhere?

Re: Zones in not shown in details

TomWaltz — Mon, 14 May 2007 20:12:34 GMT

Nope.

The Detail Tool is really not a great choice for enlarged plans alyway. It does not pick up dimensions or zones and does not update as the plan does.

Re: Zones in not shown in details

Anonymous — Mon, 14 May 2007 20:50:36 GMT

What way is better?

Re: Zones in not shown in details

TomWaltz — Mon, 14 May 2007 22:22:50 GMT

Views ets.

Just define a view for the scale you want the enlarged scale to be. You won't get am automated reference marker, but the other benefits (zones working, able to dimension to walls instead of lines and fills, and no problems with dimensions deleting themselves) far outweigh that.

Re: Zones in not shown in details

Anonymous — Tue, 15 May 2007 14:11:18 GMT

Hi,
Also look at this month's winner in the Tips and Tricks forum. It shows how you can use Autotext to reference these enlarged plans to the drawing on the layout.

Re: Zones in not shown in details

Anonymous — Tue, 15 May 2007 18:40:10 GMT

TomWaltz wrote:
Nope.

The Detail Tool is really not a great choice for enlarged plans alyway. It does not pick up dimensions or zones and does not update as the plan does.

Is this still the case in AC11?
Thanks,
Joseph

Re: Zones in not shown in details

TomWaltz — Tue, 15 May 2007 19:54:12 GMT

Joseph wrote:
TomWaltz wrote:
Nope.

The Detail Tool is really not a great choice for enlarged plans alyway. It does not pick up dimensions or zones and does not update as the plan does.
Is this still the case in AC11?
Thanks,
Joseph

Sort of. It still will not update to match the plan. It still explodes walls into lines, making them a bigger pain to dimension in the detail window.

I still would not use the detail tool (or the new Worksheet Tool) for enlarged plans.

Re: Zones in not shown in details

Anonymous — Wed, 16 May 2007 19:06:53 GMT

So if WorkSheet tool is same as Detail Tool (beside showing Zones & Markers) why do we need the Detail Tool?
Thanks,
Joseph

Re: Zones in not shown in details

Anonymous — Wed, 16 May 2007 19:27:17 GMT

Hi Joseph,
I think the Worksheet tool will be valuable as an enlarged plan just because it is different from the detail tool. I can see creating all enlarged plans from the worksheet tool. Use the cloning function to clone all of your enlarged plans to the same scale, layers combo, and view options. This saves making all those views. Also, they will be in a different folder in the Project Map, thus easier to find and organize them.
I've been playing with the worksheet tool. Think of it more as a masking tool than a window for adding additional information to the enlarged plan. I noticed that any dimensions and markers (minus the IE marker) stay live withing the Worksheet. So I suggest making a layer combo for your enlarged plans in the plan window. Then just use the worksheet tool to "mask" out all the other areas. Just rebuild from source view just before printing.

Re: Zones in not shown in details

TomWaltz — Wed, 16 May 2007 19:27:24 GMT

Joseph wrote:
So if WorkSheet tool is same as Detail Tool (beside showing Zones & Markers) why do we need the Detail Tool?
Thanks,
Joseph

No one has really answered that...

Re: Zones in not shown in details

Link — Wed, 16 May 2007 22:57:20 GMT

Joseph wrote:
Is this still the case in AC11?
Thanks,
Joseph

The detail and worksheets tools in AC11 have a 'Copy Construction Elements Only' checkbox. Checking it will show the following in the resulting detail or worksheet window (these lists aren't necessarily complete!):

Walls
Wall Ends
Columns (including crosshair)
Beams (including center line)
Windows
Doors
Library Parts
Lamps
Stairs
Slabs
Roofs
Meshes
Zones (not including stamps)
Fills (not including area text)
Lines
Arcs/Circles
Polylines
Splines
Hotspots
Corner Windows

Unchecking will show the following in the resulting detail or worksheet window:

Walls
Wall Ends
Columns (including crosshair)
Beams (including center line)
Windows
Doors
Library Parts
Lamps
Stairs
Slabs
Roofs
Meshes
Dimensions
Radial Dimensions (including centerpoint)
Level Dimensions
Angle Dimensions
Texts
Labels
Zones (including stamps)
Fills (including area text)
Lines
Arcs/Circles
Polylines
Splines
Figures
Drawings
Hotspots
Sections (including limited depth range)
Details (including boundary)
Corner Windows
Skylights
Elevations (including limited depth range)
Interior Elevations
Worksheets (including boundary)

Not including Cameras or Interior Elevation limit lines.

Everything will still be 2D though, as these views aren't 'live'.

Using zoomed views directly from the floor plan keeps the enlarged floor plan live, but may mean you'll need additional layers for masking extraneous information. You wouldn't want these masking layers on in any other plan, afterall.

Creating a view using a worksheet (or detail) will give you more flexibility because it is derived from a separate worksheet/detail window. This means that extraneous information can be removed using the same layers as in the floor plan. But then the view isn't 'live' - you can rebuild from the source view, but it's not automatic.

So IMHO it comes down to keeping the views automatically live vs. possibly requiring extra layers.

Cheers,
Link.

Re: Zones in not shown in details

Anonymous — Wed, 16 May 2007 23:19:04 GMT

Link wrote:
.....Creating a view using a worksheet (or detail) will give you more flexibility because it is derived from a separate worksheet/detail window. This means that extraneous information can be removed using the same layers as in the floor plan. But then the view isn't 'live' - you can rebuild from the source view, but it's not automatic.

So IMHO it comes down to keeping the views automatically live vs. possibly requiring extra layers.

Cheers,
Link.

Thanks Link,
Do the added annotations and clean ups go away after rebuilding?
Thanks,
Joseph

Re: Zones in not shown in details

Link — Wed, 16 May 2007 23:27:29 GMT

Information added to the worksheet/detail window will remain.

Keep in mind this is limited to the following tools:

Library Parts
Dimensions
Radial Dimensions
Level Dimensions
Angle Dimensions
Texts
Labels
Fills
Lines
Arcs/Circles
Polylines
Splines
Figures
Drawings
Hotspots
Sections
Details (!)
Elevations
Worksheets (!)

Cheers,
Link.

Re: Zones in not shown in details

Anonymous — Thu, 17 May 2007 02:31:17 GMT

According to the Graphisoft folks, the purpose of the Worksheet tool is to provide a place for people to draft 2D linework, then that is referenced into the plan window via the virtual trace. Someone who is a proficient modeler can then model the 2D linework. It is a way to get the 2D people in the Archicad environment in a way where they feel more comfortable. I may not have that exactly right, but I think that's the idea behind the worksheet ... a temporary drawing window.

Re: Zones in not shown in details

Anonymous — Thu, 17 May 2007 22:22:10 GMT

Melisa wrote:
........provide a place for people to draft 2D linework, then that is referenced into the plan window via the virtual trace........

You are saying it can be referenced to 3D window ALSO to aid in refining the 3D model?
Joseph

Re: Zones in not shown in details

Link — Thu, 17 May 2007 22:32:08 GMT

It simply means that you can draw 2D elements in the worksheet and use the (renamed) ghost function to view it in any other window, except of course the 3D window, index windows, schedules, lists, etc.

Same thing for the detail window actually

Cheers,
Link.

Re: Zones in not shown in details

__archiben — Thu, 17 May 2007 22:49:00 GMT

Joseph wrote:
You are saying it can be referenced to 3D window ALSO to aid in refining the 3D model?

unfortunately not.

Joseph wrote:
So if WorkSheet tool is same as Detail Tool ... why do we need the Detail Tool?

why indeed! the reality is pretty close to what melisa said: worksheets are a place to keep those aspects of the project information that aren't necessarily a part of the virtual building model and its closely associated views. but i have a feeling that both 'details' and 'worksheets' exist more for the 'enhanced project navigator' feature (the separation of view types for faster navigation) than for their own benefit.

~/archiben

Re: Zones in not shown in details

Anonymous — Thu, 17 May 2007 22:50:23 GMT

Link wrote:
......Same thing for the detail window actually

Cheers,
Link.

So again, why not combine the Detail & Sketch Windows together?
Joseph

Re: Zones in not shown in details

Link — Thu, 17 May 2007 22:54:44 GMT

You mean detail and worksheet? I guess GS has something planned for their respective futures. Until then I am sure there'll be many more discussions on trying to figure out what to use each one for!

Hopefully GS will provide more direction there.

Cheers,
Link.

Re: Zones in not shown in details

__archiben — Thu, 17 May 2007 22:55:38 GMT

Joseph wrote:
So again, why not combine the Detail & Sketch Windows together?

joseph - i think we double posted - see above (or below if that's how you're set up) for my reply.

interesting that you're calling the worksheet window the "sketch" window though . . !

~/archiben