topic Re: Subscription pricing for Archicad in Modeling

Subscription pricing for Archicad

Stephen Dolbee — Mon, 19 Sep 2005 17:03:40 GMT

Well, after reading about Revit's subscription pricing and many negative comments about it, now Archicad is doing the same thing. We just received notice from our reseller the opportunity to "subscribe" for the low price or $495 if done before end of Sept. $695 after that. I don't know if this is a good thing or bad. If promised a major upgrade each subscription year, that might not be a bad thing. I didn't see any comment about that, though. Anyone know?

Steve

Re: Subscription pricing for Archicad

TomWaltz — Mon, 19 Sep 2005 18:34:16 GMT

Stephen wrote:
Well, after reading about Revit's subscription pricing and many negative comments about it, now Archicad is doing the same thing. We just received notice from our reseller the opportunity to "subscribe" for the low price or $495 if done before end of Sept. $695 after that. I don't know if this is a good thing or bad. If promised a major upgrade each subscription year, that might not be a bad thing. I didn't see any comment about that, though. Anyone know?

Steve

I've not seen anything on the Graphisoft website, or any dealer website with any real detail.

Re: Subscription pricing for Archicad

Rakela Raul — Mon, 19 Sep 2005 19:21:55 GMT

and the subscription includes some goodies also, i think the ones from cadimage, 3dprofiler, footing, etc. and it is every 12 months not every 18 as it is today....
i would really like to know whats new in the new release ahead of time so i know it is worth th eupgrade.

Re: Subscription pricing for Archicad

Anonymous — Mon, 19 Sep 2005 20:06:08 GMT

Have been thinking on this last few days also. The promise is of great things to come for the US market as the plan is US only. I wonder if there is a new version promise on the part of GS. I never knew 3d profiler existed that created editable entities. The problem is I already have easy trim and Archiforma.

Decisions, decisions.

Re: Subscription pricing for Archicad

TomWaltz — Mon, 19 Sep 2005 20:16:21 GMT

Rashid wrote:
Have been thinking on this last few days also. The promise is of great things to come for the US market as the plan is US only. I wonder if there is a new version promise on the part of GS. I never knew 3d profiler existed that created editable entities. The problem is I already have easy trim and Archiforma.

Decisions, decisions.

The add-ons they are offering are all CADImage products.

Re: Subscription pricing for Archicad

Stephen Dolbee — Mon, 19 Sep 2005 20:30:08 GMT

Introducing ArchiCAD Subscription…

You can now take advantage of the new Graphisoft® ArchiCAD® Subscription Program. Stay current on new product releases while more easily managing your budget because any ArchiCAD upgrade that is released during your subscription term is delivered FREE to subscribers!

Additional benefits include:

Get priority tech support & User Support (Platinum Support) from your Graphisoft Authorized Reseller (Design Integrations). Any unresolved questions will be immediately elevated to Graphisoft technical support for resolution.
Key insurance: Replace lost or stolen keys for no charge.
Virtual Tutor: this is an invaluable tool in helping newer ArchiCAD users in getting a jumpstart toward being a productive, power-user of this Virtual Building™ modeling technology!
3D Profiler and other add-on tools: 3D Profiler will be offered with initial subscriptions; in the future, add-on tool offers may be changed – and other products may be added, which all active subscribers will be given access to.
New release training sessions will be complimentary to all Subscription clients.

This is a copy of what was e-mailed to us. The Cadimage products would be a nice feature-if it's true.

Steve

Re: Subscription pricing for Archicad

Anonymous — Mon, 19 Sep 2005 20:45:50 GMT

Sorry, but it is marketing at it's finest, same as I may do with a mature product and a near captive audience (sounds like an outfit in Redmond). You end up paying more per upgrade, enough to finance add-ons which you could or may have already bought on your own. AC 10 is becoming clearer.

I even bought Virtual tutor 6 weeks ago

Re: Subscription pricing for Archicad

Anonymous — Mon, 19 Sep 2005 21:16:16 GMT

My understanding is that Graphisoft is planning an upgrade each year. The subscription for now is an option so that you can budget for new upgrades each year. Savings (if any) would depend on the price set for each upgrade.

Re: Subscription pricing for Archicad

Richard Morrison — Mon, 19 Sep 2005 21:22:19 GMT

Stephen wrote:
Well, after reading about Revit's subscription pricing and many negative comments about it, now Archicad is doing the same thing. <snip>Steve

It's not anywhere near the same, at least as far as I can tell. With Revit, you pay a hefty "purchase" fee AND then have to pay for a subscription to get updates/upgrades. If you don't pay the annual subscription fee for a period of two years, then then you're back at the beginning, needing to pay a new "purchase" fee if you want to upgrade at any point.

"Purchase" isn't a good term, because you never really own anything with Revit; perhaps "initiation fee" is a better term. This pricing policy has definitely thrown cold water on any exploration of Revit, for me.

Graphisoft just seems to be giving you a discount and bonus items for pre-paying the typical upgrade, AFAIK. Seems rather benign, but a bit of a gamble if you don't know anything about the quality/features of the next release.

Re: Subscription pricing for Archicad

Scott Davis — Mon, 19 Sep 2005 23:49:12 GMT

"Purchase" isn't a good term, because you never really own anything with Revit;

sure you do...you own the version of the software that you purchased. If you started at release 5, and were on subscription through 9.0, then 9.0 and all earlier versions are yours to continue using for as long as you'd like. Your current Revit licenses don't expire.

Being on subscription keeps your software current. 8.0 was released this past spring, then 8.1 in the summer, and since then, two "builds" have been released, one just today. All of this, plus support directly from the Revit team are included as part of the subscription.

With the rapid way in which Revit is being developed, it makes no sense NOT to be on subscription and get all the new releases, point release, builds, and support for a small cost per year.

Re: Subscription pricing for Archicad

Richard Morrison — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 00:19:42 GMT

Scott wrote:
"Purchase" isn't a good term, because you never really own anything with Revit;
sure you do...you own the version of the software that you purchased.<snip>

Ha, ha. Sure you do..... Just try to sell what you've got and you'll find out exactly how much of Revit you "own". All you actually own is the right to keep on using old software. But if you can't sell your license, I don't consider this "ownership". Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe Autodesk allows license transfers, unless you sell your whole company.

Re: Subscription pricing for Archicad

Anonymous — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 00:27:02 GMT

This subscription system is fine as long as the vendor allocates properly and delivers upgrades on schedule. Things get interesting when users feel they are paying for little improvement. If it allows GS more ammo for development, even though every reason other than more money for the vendor are all one hears.

I do wonder about yearly upgrades though.. Those frequent Revit upgrades must play havoc with users...

Re: Subscription pricing for Archicad

Anonymous — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 01:30:55 GMT

I think that many would go for the subscription if they knew that some real substantial advancements and changes would routinely happen. I think it is a good business model for Graphisoft to stabalize their income. I just want to know that it will be worth the investment. If we can just expect the same cycle of developement its hard to justify going with the subscription.

Re: Subscription pricing for Archicad

Gerald Hoffman — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 03:41:13 GMT

We Canadians are being offered the same subsription. After speaking with the Canadian Dealer today I have decided to wait until V-10 is released. My understanding is this is not due till the 1st quarter of 2006. This could be anywhere from 3 - 6 months. The subscripition is for 12 months and would end before the next major release so we would always be in the unknown about what it is we are being asked to pay for.

I feel it would be fair for GS to ask for an early adoption of the subscription model if they made the beginning of the 12 months coincide with the release of V-10. They could then raise some funds and give the users some idea of what they are paying for. Otherwise we are being asked to pay a subscription fee for a version we have already paid for.

As I understand it we will still be able to pay for the upgrade in the usual way although we would probalbly not get some of the perks. Individuals must decide if these extras are worth it for them.

Just some thoughts and would like to hear if my information is misunderstood.

Re: Subscription pricing for Archicad

Scott Davis — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 05:07:29 GMT

Richard wrote:
Scott wrote:
"Purchase" isn't a good term, because you never really own anything with Revit;
sure you do...you own the version of the software that you purchased.<snip>
Ha, ha. Sure you do..... Just try to sell what you've got and you'll find out exactly how much of Revit you "own". All you actually own is the right to keep on using old software. But if you can't sell your license, I don't consider this "ownership". Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe Autodesk allows license transfers, unless you sell your whole company.

Can you sell your license of Windows? How about Word? No? Photoshop, either. I really don't think there is much software at all that you can transfer or sell your 'ownership' of.

If I were in the market, I wouldn't look to buy an 'old' copy of Revit anyway, or any software for that matter. Software changes and develops so rapidly that year-old software is nearly 'worthless' as far a a perceived resell value.

Re: Subscription pricing for Archicad

Anonymous — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 07:35:16 GMT

In Australia I have been offered all upgrades from my current 8.1 license for 2 years for $150/month. This is $3600 plus tax of 10%, ie, $3960. This is much more than the $495 being offered in the US. I assume it is $495/year, ie $990 for 2 years?

It is not consistent pricing for each country. I have read also that AC is expensive in Europe. One would have thought that with the internet crossing all borders pricing would be comparative.

Re: Subscription pricing for Archicad

TomWaltz — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 10:07:09 GMT

Scott wrote:
Can you sell your license of Windows? How about Word? No? Photoshop, either. I really don't think there is much software at all that you can transfer or sell your 'ownership' of.

If I were in the market, I wouldn't look to buy an 'old' copy of Revit anyway, or any software for that matter. Software changes and develops so rapidly that year-old software is nearly 'worthless' as far a a perceived resell value.

{oops, quoted the wrong part}

You can currently sell an Archicad license. Graphisoft charges a "transfer fee", but it can be done. I don't know how much the fee is, but I thought I saw it was a coupld hundred dollars somewhere.

Re: Subscription pricing for Archicad

Anonymous — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 10:55:09 GMT

Tom,

That was Richard's rebuttal regarding Autodesk..

Gerald wrote:

As I understand it we will still be able to pay for the upgrade in the usual way although we would probalbly not get some of the perks. Individuals must decide if these extras are worth it for them.

I think the only perk for subscribing now is the $200 discount. You should still get the addons if you do it in the Spring, but for more, as I imagine they still will be deal sweeteners.

Re: Subscription pricing for Archicad

Stephen Dolbee — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 11:39:22 GMT

outpostarc wrote:
I think that many would go for the subscription if they knew that some real substantial advancements and changes would routinely happen. I think it is a good business model for Graphisoft to stabalize their income. I just want to know that it will be worth the investment. If we can just expect the same cycle of developement its hard to justify going with the subscription.

That is my concern. I think we just need some clarification from GS.

Steve

Re: Subscription pricing for Archicad

Stephen Dolbee — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 11:42:51 GMT

Rashid wrote:
I think the only perk for subscribing now is the $200 discount. You should still get the addons if you do it in the Spring, but for more, as I imagine they still will be deal sweeteners.

Would we get the add-ons now, for version 9? That would be a "deal sweatener".
Steve