topic Re: How do you usually create non rectangular collumns? in Modeling

How do you usually create non rectangular collumns?

Anonymous — Fri, 26 May 2023 12:11:03 GMT

I can't see a way to create irregular shaped columns.

How do you usually handle such a case?

Re: How do you usually create non rectangular collumns?

David Larrew — Mon, 26 Jan 2004 17:04:49 GMT

We've been asking for "polygonal" Columns for a while. Maybe someday. For now you will have to use custom GDL column Objects.

Re: How do you usually create non rectangular collumns?

Anonymous — Mon, 26 Jan 2004 17:13:55 GMT

till then ,an easy way is to create the column with wall tool.

Re: How do you usually create non rectangular collumns?

Djordje — Mon, 26 Jan 2004 18:48:42 GMT

farzinassadi wrote:
till then ,an easy way is to create the column with wall tool.

... especially the polygon geometry method.

Re: How do you usually create non rectangular collumns?

Karl Ottenstein — Mon, 26 Jan 2004 19:26:36 GMT

farzinassadi wrote:
till then ,an easy way is to create the column with wall tool.

...or draw the column profile on plan and magic wand it with the slab tool...or...

Karl

Re: How do you usually create non rectangular collumns?

Anonymous — Mon, 26 Jan 2004 19:29:56 GMT

I see a workaround for such basic stuff.

If there is not such a wish in the wish list its time to put it.

Thx for you answers.

Re: How do you usually create non rectangular collumns?

Djordje — Tue, 27 Jan 2004 05:17:44 GMT

oreopoulos wrote:
I see a workaround for such basic stuff. If there is not such a wish in the wish list its time to put it. Thx for you answers.

Well ... most of the columns I have seen in my life are aither rectangular or round. Cladding, however, can take any shape. Strictly speaking, the column tool in my book is good for the structural part; the rest is another story, so has to be done with other tools.

By assigning the needed property object, you can simulate the "column" up to the calculation point.

I also don't remember seeing a freeform COLUMN in some other architectural CAD. Can you please enlighten me?

Re: How do you usually create non rectangular collumns?

Anonymous — Tue, 27 Jan 2004 10:42:12 GMT

Djordje wrote:
Well ... most of the columns I have seen in my life are aither rectangular or round.

What about classical orders? Egyptian? Minoan?

There are more than a few (structural) columns in the world that are not cylindrical or rectangular prisms. Before the twentieth century this was the rule rather than the exception. It is curious to me that every one seems to assume that columns have strictly vertical surfaces.

I consider the column tool to be fundamentally flawed* and have found it to be largely useless. In my experience it has been the rare exception rather than the rule to have a column which is rectangular or circular with strictly vertical surfaces and which is no taller than the wall(s) with which it engages. Now that the composite structures include pen and line type settings that are actually useful I expect that I will probably never again use the column tool in its present state.

While I am inclined to agree that "freeform" (strictly vertical) columns will probably always be best modeled using the poly-wall and/or composites, there are plenty of examples of regular shaped columns in modern practice where the column tool also fails. Steel columns, while strictly vertical are more often than not "H" section and cast-in-place concrete is often flared at the top. Beyond columns, there is presently no tool that properly represents diagonal structural elements such as butresses, bracing and sheer legs. All of these I have had to make as library parts.

And now for my wish (which I will presently add to the list):

The column tool should allow the element to be defined by a custom GDL script. Wall intersections in plan will be accomplished by proper scripting with global parameters and special functions - some of which are automatic (similar to doors and windows). Wall intersections in the model will be automatic using solid element operations (this will also apply to the current circular and rectangular columns) by detecting and responding to the intersecting wall. A setting in the column parameters will determine whether the wall is subtracted from the column or the column from the wall (I can see important uses for each).

Here's to hoping for a column tool we can all use in most circumstances.

Cheers to all,
Matthew

*Part of this is for historical reasons which I have discussed before. When introduced in AC5 the wall tool was already existing (obviously) so it was decided to remove the wall volume from the column (in 3D) rather than the other way around and since there were no solid element operations (also obvious) the column was cut through its entire height. My first attempt at using the new tool resulted in large (2', 0.6m), tall (22', 7m) concrete columns with slots cut to the structural deck above wherever the low partition walls ran through them.

Re: How do you usually create non rectangular collumns?

Anonymous — Tue, 27 Jan 2004 11:37:59 GMT

"Djordje
Well ... most of the columns I have seen in my life are aither rectangular or round. Cladding, however, can take any shape. Strictly speaking, the column tool in my book is good for the structural part; the rest is another story, so has to be done with other tools.
[/quote wrote:

What about columns at edges when the building sides are not perpendicular. This is very usuall at least where i live.
Not to mention T shaped Gamma shaped Pi shaped

Of course T shaped is easy to implement (although as i am new to Archicad i dont know if the overlapping part is excluded at constuction lists or counted twice)

(anyway after 1 month of using Archicad and coming from autocad i dont want to look back far easier to work. And lots of things to be evolved)

Re: How do you usually create non rectangular collumns?

David Larrew — Tue, 27 Jan 2004 18:01:21 GMT

Let's also not forget inclined/skewed columns for those designs that aren't always rectilinear.

Re: How do you usually create non rectangular collumns?

Djordje — Tue, 27 Jan 2004 18:17:30 GMT

Matthew wrote:
Djordje wrote:
Well ... most of the columns I have seen in my life are aither rectangular or round.
What about classical orders? Egyptian? Minoan?

OK, I have to elaborate.

Classical orders - GDL objects.

The STRUCTURAL columns IN the wall are usually following the outline of the wall - in the case of non-rectangular or non-linear design, then the walls have to be used for everything.

I agree with Matthew, the column tool has (sic!) a lot to be wished for!

Re: How do you usually create non rectangular collumns?

Aussie John — Tue, 27 Jan 2004 21:38:46 GMT

Matthew wrote:

What about classical orders? Egyptian? Minoan?

Dont be silly ArchiCAD hadnt been invented back then.

Re: How do you usually create non rectangular collumns?

Anonymous — Tue, 27 Jan 2004 21:49:27 GMT

David wrote:
Let's also not forget inclined/skewed columns for those designs that aren't always rectilinear.

I believe those are called braces or butresses. Columns are by definition vertical.

Re: How do you usually create non rectangular collumns?

Anonymous — Tue, 27 Jan 2004 21:57:09 GMT

If the inclined column is not possible even a bigger problem i have:
I cannot use inclined beams because ... is missing
I usually use at top of (roof trimmed ) walls objects made with truss maker
for the wall profile
SORRY - Matthew Lohden but if the column and beam traditionally are horizontal and vertical , the idea is to have more flexible and powerful tools to have clean and logical BIM . Because Graphisoft claim a BIM approach.
The columns and beams are not strictly horizontal and vertical.
I SAY .

Re: How do you usually create non rectangular collumns?

David Larrew — Wed, 28 Jan 2004 19:24:10 GMT

Matthew wrote:
I believe those are called braces or butresses. Columns are by definition vertical.

Apparently you've never worked with an organic architectural design. In my past and present experience columns are NOT always vertical... As well, beams are NOT always horizontal.

...And since GS has not provided us with the "technically correct" structural elements that you list the argument is moot.

Re: How do you usually create non rectangular collumns?

Anonymous — Wed, 28 Jan 2004 23:46:39 GMT

As you can see in my wish list item (http://www.graphisoft.com/community/archicad-talk/viewtopic.php?t=1394), I am in favor of including braces and buttresses as alternate forms in the column tool. I was just questioning the use of the word.

I also realize that some projects call for non-vertical elements that are probably most properly described as columns. Gaudí's Park Güell is an excellent example, and I have worked on a project in the Netherlands which also used them. I just wonder if there is a word to describe them without needing an adjective.

Part of my reasoning is that it would be better to have language that clearly indicates the different functions that to be included in the column tool.

Re: How do you usually create non rectangular collumns?

Anonymous — Tue, 15 Nov 2005 17:24:22 GMT

so, for a newbie like me, how would i create an 18" square column, 42" tall that tapers to 10" square at the top? it's very common on older bungalow houses around here. i've tried making four roof planes, but that didn't seem to work...also tried the canted wall, but the corners aren't right...thanks

Re: How do you usually create non rectangular collumns?

Ignacio Azpiazu — Tue, 15 Nov 2005 17:51:39 GMT

marta wrote:
how would i create an 18" square column, 42" tall that tapers to 10" square at the top? i

A mesh would be fast to generate and easy to edit.

Re: How do you usually create non rectangular collumns?

Anonymous — Tue, 15 Nov 2005 18:02:51 GMT

ignacio, i tried that, but it didn't seem to work. i've only used meshes so far for sites. i'm VERY new to archicad. any other ideas? thanks

Re: How do you usually create non rectangular collumns?

Ignacio Azpiazu — Tue, 15 Nov 2005 18:16:37 GMT

Why didn't it seem to work?

It should work. It also allows you to start the taper at mid height if you want, and define different materials for the straight (the skirting) and tapering sides.

For the tool use and settings go to the Help Menu, hit the third button 'Search', type 'mesh' and go to the first hit 'Mesh Tool and Settings'. The illustrations are surprisingly clear.