topic Re: Rojkind in UAE in Modeling

Rojkind in UAE

Anonymous — Wed, 16 May 2007 13:18:01 GMT

Hi ,

I think Rojkind arquitectos are ArchiCAD based right?

check this out

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=13161420

nice stuff? what do u think?is it all made in archicad? and for sure i am not talking about the rendering!

if we can share ideas about how do u think it is modeled?

and integrated as a full BIM or VB project?

Re: Rojkind in UAE

Anonymous — Wed, 16 May 2007 16:43:38 GMT

Yes they are ArchiCAD based. It is their house that is the startup screen for AC10. Cool stuff!

Re: Rojkind in UAE

Anonymous — Wed, 16 May 2007 18:51:49 GMT

yep .. i know that the red house is thier!! i've checked thier web page long time ago..real cool stuff...

but i mean this time..this bulding .. mmm.. kind of different.. these are no walls !!

so how did they manage to have a real ArchiCAD file ?...

i mean for me i can't find a way in my mind using walls for that " even if we managed to get it from maxonform.. naaaah!! this is no good solution " i mean for the shape it would be ok , but edititng? or even how to work with interior walls ? triming to the outer shell .. its a nightmare!! and you have to work with tons of SOE hiddin objects and u won't even be satisfied.. and still u can't edit that easily.." did i say easily!!? actually u can't!!"

so.. thats why i am posting this... just to share ideas about how it could be done..mm..lets say the right way!! i mean i know that i can do that.. i mean as long as we have mesh tool so for sure we can "module" whatever we want.. but its not the right way!! that what i would like to disscuss with you amigos!! the ArchiCAD masters!!!

mmm... any way i thought its nice to share good news with you.. not only when i face problems

Re: Rojkind in UAE

Anonymous — Thu, 17 May 2007 04:57:20 GMT

or even this one?

also from Rojkind.. i mean this structure?again i know that i can do that " not that easy" using SEO.. but still can get right plans for that !?

ideas about how these guys are pushing our Archicad to limits?

Re: Rojkind in UAE

Eduardo Rolon — Thu, 17 May 2007 13:24:46 GMT

Actually, I think that was done using Maya or Maxonform, for the basic geometry of the building envelope. Check the interview in Apple's web site.

www.apple.com/pro/profiles/rojkind/

Re: Rojkind in UAE

Anonymous — Thu, 17 May 2007 14:05:09 GMT

ejrolon wrote:
Actually, I think that was done using Maya or Maxonform, for the basic geometry of the building envelope. Check the interview in Apple's web site.

www.apple.com/pro/profiles/rojkind/

mmm...so we are not talking about a real VB or BIM file!!

SAD!!

but anyway i am thinking of sending him an email asking him about that.. is it rude or what? what do u think!!?? naaaah may be they will be too busy to answer us !! poor Archicad-talk people!!

Re: Rojkind in UAE

__archiben — Thu, 17 May 2007 22:35:55 GMT

whatever wrote:
but anyway i am thinking of sending him an email asking him about that.. is it rude or what? what do u think!!?? naaaah may be they will be too busy to answer us !! poor Archicad-talk people!!

Re: Rojkind in UAE

Anonymous — Fri, 18 May 2007 07:35:40 GMT

i don't know . . . he flew over to the archicad university in nottingham last year (or the year before?) to talk about how they used archicad in their workflow...

but in order to solicit a response, you mind find it better manners to use your real name and location rather than "whatever" and "near".

ouch!!...that hurts

ok.. you are right..but its just a habit!! i don't use any important infos !! , you are right any way.. , but didn't know that this might be considered as "not good manners"!! sorry for that!! but in the end , we are jusr Archicad users so we are on the same side " if i can say"...

and really i am interrested in this isuue about how they achive all this , in a real ArchiCAD enviroment , i mean yes i am a user for kind of long time and i know i can achive almost everything for " not so crazy buildings" , i mean every thing from modeling to all the drawings , and its all or lets say almost most of these drawings are really linked to each other 80%-90% real VB project , but when it comes to these shapes? yes still i can model that " specially with all the other tools like maxonform" but eventualy we are not talking about a real VB project , if we are going to deal with objects? i think its more like a 3D CAD , not a real solution of VB , but for sure that this is the way we do all the time in any 3D cad program , while here we just need that for extra ordinary buildings , but still for me i think all BIM solution have a real gap in this , when first i read about maxonform ? i thought that this is the real solution , but after dealing with it? mm.. its good , but not BIM!!

am i right? or its just me " whatever who lives in near "

hey no offense amigos!!

Re: Rojkind in UAE

Anonymous — Mon, 21 May 2007 16:20:32 GMT

Whatever,

No offense taken, I understand not wanting to give any info.

I think you are right about the limitations of BIM or real VB in this area, but it is this kind of work that pushes the developers to the next level.

So far there is no one magic software that does it all, and you have to make compromises, but I hope that Graphisoft are paying attention and the next generation of tools allows for better integration with Maxonform or Maya, or whatever...

Keep on pushing the limits!

Re: Rojkind in UAE

Mats_Knutsson — Tue, 22 May 2007 18:37:41 GMT

ddeyarza wrote:
Whatever,

No offense taken, I understand not wanting to give any info.

I think you are right about the limitations of BIM or real VB in this area, but it is this kind of work that pushes the developers to the next level.

So far there is no one magic software that does it all, and you have to make compromises, but I hope that Graphisoft are paying attention and the next generation of tools allows for better integration with Maxonform or Maya, or whatever...

Keep on pushing the limits!

Buildings of this kind are most often two buildings right!?..a normal one and the "not-so-normal" one /shell/structural construction. Normal part is ArchiCAD and not-so-normal any 3D modeller software (doesn't matter really...Rhino, Alias, Cinema, Maxon, Maya, 3DS and a bunch of others produce very funky ...ahm..things!?). Most often the interior isn't Fred Flintstone style and thus very applicable to a BIM model in ArchiCAD.

This one was really cool btw! Rock'n'roll!!!

Tweaked is the word I think of when I see it!

Re: Rojkind in UAE

Anonymous — Tue, 22 May 2007 19:25:50 GMT

yes you are all right my friend , for sure i mean after all these versions... still nothing new to mesh tool? ok NURBS could be good.. and after like 3 versions now with SEO , still no right display on floor plans?..

and now they came with the new version to convince me that Virtual Trace is a real deal?

Hey common!! its a step back in the VB technology!! model as u need!!? and create a proper 2D drawings manually?..

no .. you improve the VB tools.. and i use it to the limit i need..

i mean sure we don't produce 100% BIM projects.. but we decide that.. and we feel pitty for that... because we can't do it all in the "right way"

and now its the policy of the company? ooh.. yes its hard to modle every thing... just get what you need? i don't think that what a real BIM technology needs... its more 2D CAD than a real VB solution!!

ooh yes its for helping people going to BIM world? ok get a good BIM solution and people will go!! its hard to shift... from one world to another.. but its worthy if the new world is really good!!

but helping people to go from 2D world to a new level of 2D world? no stick to your tricks in 2D!!

really i was dipressed when i am looking at the new features of AC11

its only the curved"slanted-profiled" walls , which actually should be already included in AC10 ,because its not too archicadish!!

what we used to see is .. u can do that here? so you can do it every where!! thats what i know about Archicad...

but now we have half- ok of every thing.. half-ok SEO.. half-ok stair maker... half-ok openings in profiles... half-ok maxonform " less than half.. more like a real good thing that is usless in BIM"...half-ok sketchup plug in " it wasn't available for mac usres for AC10"..No solution for multi processing..no advantage of more than 4GB ram... now the same file..switch to any 3D software..it will be like a toy you can explore and rotate and every thing coz its using all the processors while our used to be superior archicad can't... sorry we only use one of ur proccessors...?many things we are waiting for

and now we have the solutions in AC11.. heeey you have the cool virtual tracing technology!!?? common!!! i can't believe they did that ..its so "NOKIA".."Autodesk" style!!

don't get me wrong... i love this software .. it made my life easier.. but now with all other solutions coming up.. other BIM solution... its like my babe is not that hot any more!! but i still love her!!
and the bad thing about that.. is that other "babes" are evil!! the same company that buy anything that works!! and claim it to itself!!

so ..

its not the kind of discusion i was looking for!!
but when archicad good useres have a presentation in thier company that they struggled to convince thier manageres to switch to archicad.. and Revit people do a presentation there.. and the were like and looks for them that its AC14? or AC15?

thats bad!!

i hare it when every time the truth strikes me!! its all about pushing money in a company!!

i hate that... sigh..sorry i was talkin alot..

any way... the challenge is huge.. and i hope now with graphisoft is working with "or name it whtever you like" nemetschek together... i hope things will go in right direction... instead of " Virtual Tracing!!???"

get the best BIM and people will go to that!! no one will switch from Autocad to Archicad while there is an autodesk solution... and its the same level...i know that even revit is not that good with autocad..i mean when it comes to exporting files.. the same thing with ADT and Autocad.. but People don't know that..they will say ...heey its the same company ..so for sure its better to go to that solution!!..no one will think that.. ooh but wait a minute.. archicad has the cool virtual tracing tool!!

they will say we can create free shapes in Revit.. and convert faces into elements... walls .. curtain walls...so and so..!!

thanx again mates... sorry for talkin that much!!
share ideas..in the end its not about programs ... its about architecture... but sad to see technology leader.. doing some back steps!!

Re: Rojkind in UAE

Mats_Knutsson — Wed, 23 May 2007 06:13:49 GMT

whatever wrote:
but when archicad good useres have a presentation in thier company that they struggled to convince thier manageres to switch to archicad.. and Revit people do a presentation there.. and the were like and looks for them that its AC14? or AC15?

I don't understand what you write. Revit has obiously had ArchiCAD as the main inspiration when it comes to interface. I prefer ArchiCADs interface so I guess it's only a matter of personal taste and thus not very interesting in general. The underlying technology is different and flatcadders (from ACAD) don't understand what they see. The get so excited just becasue they can make anything at all in 3D.
They see that it CAN be done but they don't have the matureness to figure out HOW it works. It takes a while to come to this level but it's the level you will continue to work on for the rest of your career.

However the important thing is that ArchiCAD is made for working with buildings and the amount of freedom in design versus automation in ArchiCAD is spot on.

Cheers,
Mats

Re: Rojkind in UAE

Anonymous — Wed, 23 May 2007 06:55:02 GMT

ooh..sorry Mats . excuse my English!!

what i was saying is i had couple of friends , working in a kind of big firm , they were trying for the last couple of years to convince thier managers to switch to archicad , and they have all those "enemy-colleges" supporting ACAD , and stuff like can you do this? can you do that?... you know this stuff... and suddenly the company had a presentation of Revit... and my friends were totally out!! and those "enemy colleges" where like

and they are good users , and they know that they've seen things done easily in Revit , while it takes us a real big time to achive it..

i know Revit is still having problems ... as any other BIM solution , i know they don't have our advanced library parts , i know that no Marquee and partial 3D views , I know that they are also sticked to 32 bit ,and one processor , i know that even for me i didn't find the interface user-friendly..but its just my opinon , i mean others could find archicad to be not so user friendly ,

But i know that they have a mass builder , and you can assign faces as walls and curtain walls !! while we have sketchup... which is for sure the most marviloous and easy way to create a mass.. no doubt.. but its another application!! free? yes but still another application... and its not highly supported!! imagine that mac users had no link for AC10 and sketchup!!?

And i know that plans in revit are from the 3D modle .. while we have symbols... which is good sometimes..but its really bad when it comes to SEO... really bad

I am not sure if they have Views as powerfull as we have , and i think that schedules aren't that advanced..they can have no legends in schedule unless they put it manually " i am not sure but its a general idea" , and i know that for them they have to split the file if its large or if a team is working on it , and that will cause some problems in schedules and Zone numbers

And I know that the whole Revit thing is totally Archicad!! they didn't invent a new stuff... they just select a good thing and worked on it , but now its good.. and its AUTODESK!!!

I know that the pressure is huge on graphisoft ... but having virtual tracing?

virtual tracing ??

i didn't tried it yet.. i mean it looks cool , but its not about being cool!! its about having better tool, coordination and control? i don't think that this was the most important part to be solved in archicad... really don't think so

URRRRRRGH... every time i start posting i think that i am going to post few lines!! and i end with this... sorry

Re: Rojkind in UAE

Mats_Knutsson — Wed, 23 May 2007 07:21:13 GMT

whatever wrote:
ooh..sorry Mats . excuse my English!!

what i was saying is i had couple of friends , working in a kind of big firm , they were trying for the last couple of years to convince thier managers to switch to archicad , and they have all those "enemy-colleges" supporting ACAD , and stuff like can you do this? can you do that?... you know this stuff... and suddenly the company had a presentation of Revit... and my friends were totally out!! and those "enemy colleges" where like

and they are good users , and they know that they've seen things done easily in Revit , while it takes us a real big time to achive it..

i know Revit is still having problems ... as any other BIM solution , i know they don't have our advanced library parts , i know that no Marquee and partial 3D views , I know that they are also sticked to 32 bit ,and one processor , i know that even for me i didn't find the interface user-friendly..but its just my opinon , i mean others could find archicad to be not so user friendly ,

But i know that they have a mass builder , and you can assign faces as walls and curtain walls !! while we have sketchup... which is for sure the most marviloous and easy way to create a mass.. no doubt.. but its another application!! free? yes but still another application... and its not highly supported!! imagine that mac users had no link for AC10 and sketchup!!?

And i know that plans in revit are from the 3D modle .. while we have symbols... which is good sometimes..but its really bad when it comes to SEO... really bad

I am not sure if they have Views as powerfull as we have , and i think that schedules aren't that advanced..they can have no legends in schedule unless they put it manually " i am not sure but its a general idea" , and i know that for them they have to split the file if its large or if a team is working on it , and that will cause some problems in schedules and Zone numbers

And I know that the whole Revit thing is totally Archicad!! they didn't invent a new stuff... they just select a good thing and worked on it , but now its good.. and its AUTODESK!!!

I know that the pressure is huge on graphisoft ... but having virtual tracing?

virtual tracing ??

i didn't tried it yet.. i mean it looks cool , but its not about being cool!! its about having better tool, coordination and control? i don't think that this was the most important part to be solved in archicad... really don't think so

URRRRRRGH... every time i start posting i think that i am going to post few lines!! and i end with this... sorry

I'm actually on the move but a comment.
Massing...whoa..have a looka at www.cej.fi and their huge infrastructural projects. Pure mass/volumes covered with surface. Use the zone tool and you have all area/volume/composition inormation you need about your project.

Learning...after a 3 days basic training course most people can start producing building permits and such. AC have a very simple and nice interface and it is the mix between freedom and automation as I said which is really important but since many architecs have been reduced to CAD-modellers it's kind of abstract for them.

Well well, it's a complex process and some people go for bling factor. You should evaluate the whole process. But it takes knowledge.

Now I'm off to Poland.

Re: Rojkind in UAE

Anonymous — Wed, 23 May 2007 07:54:31 GMT

mm..sorry i meant massing like freedom to create shapes

but still this guys at CEJ .. using Archicad? good stuff.. really good stuff..

and enjoy ur stay in Poland

Re: Rojkind in UAE

Mats_Knutsson — Wed, 23 May 2007 08:24:07 GMT

whatever wrote:
mm..sorry i meant massing like freedom to create shapes

but still this guys at CEJ .. using Archicad? good stuff.. really good stuff..

and enjoy ur stay in Poland

My last one before I'm off to the airport.
Think outside of the box and you're there with the zones as shapes/volumes. In these early stages you rarely do a building model with walls and slabs and windows and doors and stuff if you know the smarter way to do it. Do your volume studies and analysis with the zone tool (and as a bi-product you get all areas etc), put textures on your volumes and render and there you go. Excellent workflow for competitions/early stages where you need to make lots of different solutions in a short period time. Still it's only one of many many parameters.

CEJ btw has their own programmers that tweak the zone tool even further to a deadly weapon.

If you want to go for blobs you have to go with a dedicated 3D blobber software. No BIM there yet.

ArchiCAD + Maxon/C4D is the best combination on the market today when it comes to combining BIM and general 3D. (IMHO)

Mats

Re: Rojkind in UAE

Anonymous — Wed, 23 May 2007 09:31:58 GMT

mm... are u that addicted to the forum?

mm..yes i agree with you..its better to start with something different than waals and slabs.. for me i used to use sketchup..nothing can defeat that.." i think "..

and Archicad + maxon... is the best on the market... but so far away from being a good productive tool , that gives a real benefit to your VB or BIM project

Any way sure u are not reading this, hope u are having a BIM conversation with a nice flight attendant

Safe trip ,