topic Re: From Floor Slabs to Floor Framing in Modeling

From Floor Slabs to Floor Framing

Anonymous — Thu, 25 May 2023 16:06:17 GMT

When I start designing a house, I just put in thick floor slabs while the shape and size of the building are in flux. I typically run the floor slabs to the outside, so exterior walls start and end at the floor slabs. From the beginning I design with composite walls so I can later dimension to the cores of wood walls (builders love the framing layout plans).

Later as the design is developed I also create floor framing plans for the engineer and builder. At that point it would be better to show the individual floor joists and beams, sub floor, finish floor and ceiling below, especially in section drawings. What's the best way to make this transition?

Cathy Roha
Berkeley, CA (US wood-framing conventions)
AC 8.0 (waiting for 8.1), Win XP

Re: From Floor Slabs to Floor Framing

Jefferson — Sun, 02 Nov 2003 19:00:27 GMT

Cathy,

I am tending to start that original floor slab with a composite representing the cavity the joists will occupy as empty fill, and the subfloor by something liken to plywood. Shape as you need in the early stages. When you're ready to define joists, ceilings, finished floors etc. that's a matter of how far to take the model, (which it seems is an open ended topic)..................dealer's choice......................or you are redy to detail your sections and plans with lines and fills, it really seems just a matter of how you want to work, model or draw.

Re: From Floor Slabs to Floor Framing

Richard Morrison — Sun, 02 Nov 2003 20:33:59 GMT

Hi Cathy!

I've found it better to treat the floor slabs as just the structural portion (composite slab showing just joist depth and subfloor), otherwise it gets harder to edit and dimension if the sheetrock ceiling thickness extends over the tops of walls. Once you unlink the section from the model, it's easy to just copy a line if you feel the need to show ceiling and finish floor.

You can also save a little section editing, if you're showing all layers, by magic-wanding the floor slab around the exterior walls, then using the pet palette from a corner node to "shrink" the slab the dimension of the exterior finish and sheathing. Then, to make the building look right in 3D, add a thin composite wall (with just the exterior finish layer and sheathing) the height of the floor slab by magic-wanding it around the slab. Actually faster than it sounds.

BTW, I recently started using some library parts from Objects Online for framing members, the MasterBeam, MasterRafter, and MasterPost objects, which I like very much. A little pricey, but these in conjunction with the free TJM objects pretty well cover the bases. The automatic labeling is great, and I especially like the way point loads are carried down and shown on the floor below with the MasterPost object. HTH,

Re: From Floor Slabs to Floor Framing

gpowless — Mon, 03 Nov 2003 00:34:40 GMT

What? Do you unlink your section? (as if resurrecting another long term debate isn't fun in a new format.... )

I model all the way to production drawings. I found that unlinking made if difficult to update drawings when changes were made.

(BTW I hang my toilet paper with the leading edge out.... )

Re: From Floor Slabs to Floor Framing

Anonymous — Tue, 04 Nov 2003 18:18:11 GMT

Richard wrote:

BTW, I recently started using some library parts from Objects Online for framing members, the MasterBeam, MasterRafter, and MasterPost objects, which I like very much.

I sure would like to see a screen shot of a structural model done this way, is it possible?

Mark

Re: From Floor Slabs to Floor Framing

Richard Morrison — Tue, 04 Nov 2003 18:45:21 GMT

Burginger wrote:

I sure would like to see a screen shot of a structural model done this way, is it possible?

Mark

Well, it wouldn't be much of a "model" because I only do floor joists, beams, rafters, and posts. I don't do studs/plates. But these objects actually look pretty much like standard AC beams, columns, and rafters, both in 2D and 3D, except they are more flexible and have automatic labels, if you wish.

Beams (joists) can be set to have metal hangers shown, and you can select, say, a double 2x10 and it will be labeled "(2) 2x10".

Rafters can have birdsmouths (and 2D hangers). My favorite feature, though is with the posts, which if you select as "show on floor below" can have different labels on that lower floor, such as "Pt. load", "2200#", "PHD5A" or whatever you want. Makes it easy to track down point loads.

Re: From Floor Slabs to Floor Framing

Anonymous — Tue, 04 Nov 2003 22:34:08 GMT

Cathy wrote:
Later as the design is developed I also create floor framing plans for the engineer and builder. At that point it would be better to show the individual floor joists and beams, sub floor, finish floor and ceiling below, especially in section drawings. What's the best way to make this transition?

I haven't tried it right now, but I think the most easy solution is to draw your slab as roofs with no slope on a specific layer that will be easily hidden, then make you structure design with Roofmaker : it can easily place beams on a roof and draw all the piece together. With a little experience and some tweaks, It might be the fastest and easiest way.

...I still have to try

Re: From Floor Slabs to Floor Framing

Anonymous — Tue, 04 Nov 2003 22:35:39 GMT

How do you handle the inability to get an accurate dimension from two objects intersecting without making a copy of your section or does unlinking take care of this for you?

Chris

Re: From Floor Slabs to Floor Framing

Link — Wed, 05 Nov 2003 05:53:45 GMT

I haven't tried it right now, but I think the most easy solution is to draw your slab as roofs with no slope on a specific layer that will be easily hidden, then make you structure design with Roofmaker : it can easily place beams on a roof and draw all the piece together. With a little experience and some tweaks, It might be the fastest and easiest way.

I agree! This is a very under-utilized method. Draw a (temporary) flat roof in the same space as the flooring. Adjust the appropriate settings in the Roof Wizard and whooshka - Instant floor framing.

Sometimes the answers are right under our noses, but we think the name of the tool restricts our thinking

Cheers,
Link.

Re: From Floor Slabs to Floor Framing

Rick Thompson — Wed, 05 Nov 2003 19:04:37 GMT

Link wrote:
I haven't tried it right now, but I think the most easy solution is to draw your slab as roofs with no slope on a specific layer that will be easily hidden, then make you structure design with Roofmaker : it can easily place beams on a roof and draw all the piece together. With a little experience and some tweaks, It might be the fastest and easiest way.
I agree! This is a very under-utilized method. Draw a (temporary) flat roof in the same space as the flooring. Adjust the appropriate settings in the Roof Wizard and whooshka - Instant floor framing.

Sometimes the answers are right under our noses, but we think the name of the tool restricts our thinking

Cheers,
Link.

Interesting idea, but after playing a few min with it I think I'll stick with what I have been doing, which is....

I keep a set of all framing sizes off to the side on my templates, on a hidden framing layer. These are from one AC library object I renamed (one of the beams I think). They are all keyed into the data base property objects by ID. If I have a 15'-6" span I grab the 2x10x16 and place one, adjust the lenght, and drag multiply. If a double is needed I drag a copy 1.5". This is actually very quick to do, with no additional roofs to place. I color code them, so for the PT joist I use green. This gives very accurate material listing too. For blocking I will go off to the side and place a few extra, same with headers. While the roofs will work, the material list will not be as nice since it will return values to the inch, not useful for take offs where you need how many 2x10x16's. However, I have a modified script that will make the Roof maker return whole numbers rounded up and to even numbers. If anyone wants it I will send it to you.

Re: From Floor Slabs to Floor Framing

Anonymous — Fri, 07 Nov 2003 08:31:34 GMT

At that point it would be better to show the individual floor joists and beams, sub floor, finish floor and ceiling below, especially in section drawings. What's the best way to make this transition?

I make my floor slabs height equal to the framing members height plus the subflooring in thickness. This is located on the story with the walls that sit on top this floor. I then draw framing members on the story below with the beam tool. They are at the proper height in plan so when you take a section they appear inside of the floor slab. Having the joists on the story below, the floor joist now appear on top of the walls they sit on so you can see what is supporting them. Also I draw beams in the walls above doors and windows below the floor joists so they can be labeled and sized. They also appear correctly in section.
With the way AC starts story heights with the bottom on the walls and uses gravity to the slabs, the slabs need to be on that story. But when you are showing framing you really want it on the story below to place it with all walls it is being framed on top of. Of course, I use separate layers for all the joists and beams so they can toggle off when you just want to see a floor plan.
I will try the Trust Joist objects soon so a TJI floor will section properly.

Re: From Floor Slabs to Floor Framing

Karl Ottenstein — Fri, 07 Nov 2003 17:40:35 GMT

Hari wrote:
But when you are showing framing you really want it on the story below to place it with all walls it is being framed on top of. Of course, I use separate layers for all the joists and beams so they can toggle off when you just want to see a floor plan.

Good to see you on the 'new' list, Hari Har.

I agree and use the same method.

Karl