topic Re: roof bug AC11? 1200 and previous in Modeling

roof bug AC11? 1200 and previous

Eduardo Rolon — Tue, 23 May 2023 13:12:20 GMT

I don't know if this was posted before, happens in Mac intels and PPC and it is not fixed in todays update.

Create a roof specify the angle and thickness…

Re: roof bug AC11? 1200 and previous

Eduardo Rolon — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 20:24:20 GMT

After drawing the roof, change the angle if you tab to the thickness you'll see that AC has decided that the roof thickness cannot stay as was specified and it will make it thicker.

If you don't press Tab and just hit ok then you will find the new thickness when you do a section thru the roof or open that roof settings again

Re: roof bug AC11? 1200 and previous

Eduardo Rolon — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 20:30:45 GMT

Update:

It only happens when you increase the angle.

Re: roof bug AC11? 1200 and previous

Anonymous — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 20:49:02 GMT

It happens because AC keeps the perpendicular thickness constant regardless of the angle. When you change the angle, the vertical thickness will (and has to) change to suit. I presume it is related to when using a composite structure fill where the perp thickness has to be constant.

As far as I know it has always been like that. At least it is consistent!

The logical solution would be to have way of 'locking' either of the thicknesses, when using a non-composite, so as to indicate which was the important one for the roof.

Perhaps start a wish for it if there isn't one already. I'd vote!

Re: roof bug AC11? 1200 and previous

Eduardo Rolon — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 20:52:36 GMT

The problem is that I am not selecting the perpendicular thickness of the roof but the "Y" coordinate.

Anyway that doesn't answer why it changes when you increase the angle and not when you decrease it. If it was consistent it would change for both.

The wish might sound a little absurd.

"I wish that AC does not automatically change the thickness of a roof when I increase its angle and leave it as I already specified…"

Re: roof bug AC11? 1200 and previous

Laura Yanoviak — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 22:05:50 GMT

It's basic geometry. If the thickness of the slab is constant, and the angle changes, the "y value" must change. It's always been this way... You can always change the "y value" of a (non-composite) roof, but then the thickness of the slab will change.

Re: roof behavior AC11? 1200 and previous

Eduardo Rolon — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 22:34:23 GMT

Ok, MY mistake was assuming that it was an arbitrary change. It is not. The specified thickness will stay for that particular angle, once you change it to a different angle the roof tool will recalculate the geometry.

I was thinking that changing the angle worked as if you were rotating the roof in the section/elevation, which would let the thickness stay the same and which is common in other 3D modeling programs.

Therefore Peter's suggestion about the wish for being able to lock the thickness of the roof is ok,

Re: roof bug AC11? 1200 and previous

Anonymous — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 14:17:42 GMT

Wish made!
here.

Re: roof bug AC11? 1200 and previous

Eduardo Rolon — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 14:37:22 GMT

Voted and commented.

Thanks Peter.

Re: roof bug AC11? 1200 and previous

Rick Thompson — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 15:11:00 GMT

Another good reason to use composites. I can't think of any reason not to.

Re: roof bug AC11? 1200 and previous

Eduardo Rolon — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 15:24:41 GMT

Agreed that composites might work but the problem is that at this point of the project I don't know the material I am going to use for the roof, nor the final angle the only item I was assuming was the width.

Anyway if composites can do it, why the other option can't? Also from a training point of view it should be consistent, exceptions are unnecessary headaches. Which is my excuse for the post, I forgot that as long as I use composites there is no problem.

Re: roof bug AC11? 1200 and previous

Anonymous — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 16:14:56 GMT

Thats not the problem for me. The thickness of the roof (i.e. the material thickness) will stay the same regardless of the angle whether you use a composite or a plain fill. (Unless you are telling me otherwise!) That what it is designed to do and is what most people want to happen.

A roof is made of actual components : rafters, battens, tiles etc of a set size. They wont generally change if the pitch is changed in real life so the tool correctly mimics this currently.

The problem for me is if you are using the roof tool for a different purpose than designed. You might prefer the roofs vertical thickness to stay the same regardless of the angle. At the moment you have to keep changing the vertical thickness after you have adjusted the pitch to keep it correct. I know it's not a massive problem for most people but I think the option should be there.

Re: roof bug AC11? 1200 and previous

TomWaltz — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 17:53:22 GMT

Peter wrote:
The problem for me is if you are using the roof tool for a different purpose than designed. You might prefer the roofs vertical thickness to stay the same regardless of the angle. At the moment you have to keep changing the vertical thickness after you have adjusted the pitch to keep it correct. I know it's not a massive problem for most people but I think the option should be there.

If you're using the roof to make fascias, you are pretty much causing your own problem. It's made for roofs, not for making a big blank fascia a weird thickness of roof.

Re: roof bug AC11? 1200 and previous

Eduardo Rolon — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 18:16:27 GMT

TomWaltz wrote:
Peter wrote:
The problem for me is if you are using the roof tool for a different purpose than designed. You might prefer the roofs vertical thickness to stay the same regardless of the angle. At the moment you have to keep changing the vertical thickness after you have adjusted the pitch to keep it correct. I know it's not a massive problem for most people but I think the option should be there.
If you're using the roof to make fascias, you are pretty much causing your own problem. It's made for roofs, not for making a big blank fascia a weird thickness of roof.

So using a slab as a "flat" roof or as a counter is a no-no since the Slab Tool is for Slabs?

Re: roof bug AC11? 1200 and previous

Anonymous — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 18:57:11 GMT

TomWaltz wrote:
If you're using the roof to make fascias, you are pretty much causing your own problem. It's made for roofs, not for making a big blank fascia a weird thickness of roof.

Yes I know I tend to be the main cause of my problems! It's the story of my life

OK, A question - Why have the option in the settings dialog box to adjust the vertical dimension in the first place, if we are not allowed to use it and doesn't remain set if you change the pitch? Either remove it completely or allow it to have a permanent effect.

At least two people can see the possible use for this. We aren't that crazy are we? Don't answer that!

Anyway, who said anything about modelling fascias?

Re: roof bug AC11? 1200 and previous

Laura Yanoviak — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 21:05:32 GMT

Peter wrote:
OK, A question - Why have the option in the settings dialog box to adjust the vertical dimension in the first place, if we are not allowed to use it and doesn't remain set if you change the pitch?

So that you can -- as it appears you want to do...

Re: roof bug AC11? 1200 and previous

TomWaltz — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 21:13:23 GMT

Peter wrote:
At least two people can see the possible use for this. We aren't that crazy are we? Don't answer that!

Too late!

Re: roof bug AC11? 1200 and previous

Anonymous — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 21:23:21 GMT

Laura wrote:
So that you can -- as it appears you want to do...

I don't want to do it manually though, I want the computer to do it for me!

TomWaltz wrote:
Too late!

Thanks Tom!

Re: roof bug AC11? 1200 and previous

Djordje — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 08:54:12 GMT

Hm ...

You should not just because you can.

Re: roof bug AC11? 1200 and previous

Thomas Holm — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 09:46:31 GMT

Peter wrote:
The logical solution would be to have way of 'locking' either of the thicknesses, when using a non-composite, so as to indicate which was the important one for the roof.

I often use roofs, and roofs upon roofs, to model real roof structures. I still can't see the use for this (locking "vertical thickness")- when I dimension the structures, I always give the parts' thicknesses (perpendicular to their length), not some arbitrary inclined measurement depending on the roof slope. So I find Archicad's behavior in this case quite to the point.

What I would find useful though is to optionally set a roof's pivot line (it's z coordinate position) fixed at its top side (like slabs) instead of at it's bottom side.