topic Re: 2D Window Issues in AC10 in Modeling

Speed Issues in 2d w/ AC10

Anonymous — Tue, 23 May 2023 15:14:01 GMT

Wanted to start a new post and see if any one is having issues with speed in AC10 when working in 2d.

I am considerably slower than AC9.

Having issue with clicking a node and when the object is actually moveable I am actually holding the object not on the node I clicked but 1/2" - 1" away (screen distance). I have to drop the object and pick it up again... This one is way bizarre and linked to the lag thing...

I am having lag between actually clicking an object and being able to move the selected object.

Panning is way laggy using the arrow keys.

The conditions are the same for another workstation in office with an ATI graphics card.

Just generally less smooth drafting in 2D. It feels like it may have something to do with the graphics card but is the same on both my machines.

I also turned off tracker and guidelines to see if it helps but it doesn't seem to affect it.

Dunno.

Re: 2D Window Issues in AC10

__archiben — Thu, 10 Aug 2006 01:37:02 GMT

g.h.design wrote:
Just generally less smooth drafting in 2D. It feels like it may have something to do with the graphics card but is the same on both my machines.

i think GS have turned off once and for all any graphics card support for 2D window work - it was never really used in previous versions, and was only a benefit when using the terribly sluggish and miserable AC8 on a mac platform.

check your 2D model complexity settings. i normally have mine set to "simplified model" . . .

other than that . . . dunno either . . . i'm finding it an overall improvement over AC9

~/archiben

Re: 2D Window Issues in AC10

Anonymous — Thu, 10 Aug 2006 01:56:33 GMT

Yeah, I have that turned to the lowest setting.

Dunno...

Oh, and you have never clicked one point and ended up grabbing it at some random point off to the side of the object. That happens to us a few times an hour at least. Both stations. Very consistent and weird.

Re: 2D Window Issues in AC10

__archiben — Thu, 10 Aug 2006 02:18:04 GMT

g.h.design wrote:
Oh, and you have never clicked one point and ended up grabbing it at some random point off to the side of the object. That happens to us a few times an hour at least. Both stations. Very consistent and weird.

only with beams - their clean up nodes are not necessarily where their placed physical nodes might've been . . . a different condition to yours entirely i think . . .

sorry - i'm out of ideas.
~/archiben

Re: 2D Window Issues in AC10

Rod Jurich — Thu, 10 Aug 2006 10:38:59 GMT

g.h.design wrote:
Wanted to start a new post and see if any one is having issues with speed in AC10 when working in 2d.

/............................

I am having lag between actually clicking an object and being able to move the selected object.

/........................................
I also turned off tracker and guidelines to see if it helps but it doesn't seem to affect it.

Greg, have a look at my post of - Errant select/drag occurance?? + Attachment 27th July.

And before Ben says it's "pilot error" again.

It is not!

Having played a bit with WE Selection & Element Info Prefs, I feel that GS has altered the way the cursor works in selection. I mean now that when many elements are about one another you have to Tab select. This must slow things down some what. A positive trade to be sure you select what it is you want.

(At least now I have my hotspots showing on the wall reference line as well as both end nodes.)

Back to selection/drag as we have it in 9. The ability to click/drag as one has slowed dramatically in 10.

Even with no other elements within striking distance if I try what is normal in 9 I end up too frequently "leaving" said pick up behind.

At my age my son would say I should be slowing down. But with some of these darned new toys that GS has landed us with and which most experienced users have turned off cause me concern when I see this sort of event happening too frequently through the day.

Look forward to your response.

Re: 2D Window Issues in AC10

Anonymous — Thu, 10 Aug 2006 11:38:38 GMT

Aah, yes. Thank you for the reference to your earlier post.

I looked at your post and it appears to be exactly the same condition as my own. It is not related to the speed with which I try to move the object after selection, as you said, not a piloting error. Also, I agree that the simple act of clicking and dragging has slowed and developed a bit of a stutter from 9 to 10. All I can figure is that it must be related to processes going on behind the scenes related to new selection and guide tools. On or off the process appears to be going on.

I have slowed down to try and let ArchiCAD catch up with me. That is the point I think. I would think that I wouldn't have to. Maybe that is an upgrade. A built in preventative for carpal tunnel syndrome and impatience.

I enjoy the new selection highlighting and ability to tab through objects but I am not enjoying the slowdown in the the thing I do the most in ArchiCAD, clicking and dragging. It is similar to having to wait a few seconds for the steering wheel to respond while driving. Acceptable in a neglected, road weary 1960's detroit dinosaur but in a new 2006... somewhat disorienting.

Re: 2D Window Issues in AC10

Rod Jurich — Thu, 10 Aug 2006 11:46:53 GMT

g.h.design wrote:
Aah, yes. Thank you for the reference to your earlier post.

I looked at your post and it appears to be exactly the same condition as my own. It is not related to the speed with which I try to move the object after selection, as you said, not a piloting error. Also, I agree that the simple act of clicking and dragging has slowed and developed a bit of a stutter from 9 to 10. All I can figure is that it must be related to processes going on behind the scenes related to new selection and guide tools. On or off the process appears to be going on.

I have slowed down to try and let ArchiCAD catch up with me. That is the point I think. I would think that I wouldn't have to. Maybe that is an upgrade. A built in preventative for carpal tunnel syndrome and impatience.

I enjoy the new selection highlighting and ability to tab through objects but I am not enjoying the slowdown in the the thing I do the most in ArchiCAD, clicking and dragging. It is similar to having to wait a few seconds for the steering wheel to respond while driving. Acceptable in a neglected, road weary 1960's detroit dinosaur but in a new 2006... somewhat disorienting.

Well put Greg, but you are just too polite. The censor would kill me before my real comments left my keyboard.
It was good to see young Ben vent his spleen the other day.
Anyway appreciate that I'm not the only "mushroom".
And please tell us where Bonny Doon Ca is?

Re: 2D Window Issues in AC10

Anonymous — Thu, 10 Aug 2006 11:50:55 GMT

I have turned of all of the new selection aids and am giving it a go. It appears to have returned things to a more 'normal speed' already I believe. I will work today in this mode and see if the bug of selecting the object in strange place reoccurs.

Re: 2D Window Issues in AC10

Anonymous — Thu, 10 Aug 2006 12:03:47 GMT

Bonny Doon is just north of Santa Cruz, Ca, USA. Monterey Bay being the most prominent and proximal geographical landmark. South of San Fransisco by a couple hours.
Little oasis of mountains, fog and redwood. Some quite large eucalyptus as well...

I am going to look for the spleen venting...

Re: 2D Window Issues in AC10

Anonymous — Thu, 10 Aug 2006 13:31:34 GMT

Going to document every area where I notice slowness today.

Dimensioning. Significant delay when clicking on a node to manually dimension a wall w/ windows doors. I click a node and have to wait s....e....v.......e.....r.........a.......l seconds before the dimension point shows on screen and I can move on to the next one. Wanted to add that sometimes (1/4 of the time) the click and placement are essentially instantaneous.

Re: 2D Window Issues in AC10

__archiben — Thu, 10 Aug 2006 22:05:12 GMT

Rod wrote:
And before Ben says it's "pilot error" again.

Rod wrote:
It was good to see young Ben vent his spleen the other day.

that? was nothing . . . see me when i'm really fired up . . .

~/archiben

Re: 2D Window Issues in AC10

Barry Kelly — Fri, 11 Aug 2006 03:49:19 GMT

g.h.design wrote:
Going to document every area where I notice slowness today.

Dimensioning. Significant delay when clicking on a node to manually dimension a wall w/ windows doors. I click a node and have to wait s....e....v.......e.....r.........a.......l seconds before the dimension point shows on screen and I can move on to the next one. Wanted to add that sometimes (1/4 of the time) the click and placement are essentially instantaneous.

I don't know if this is related.
A collegue of mine (V10 on Windows XP) could not double click to place a dimension - just added and subtracted the node.
Oddly enough if he went to the START button and then back into Archicad the hammer would suddenly appear.
Something like that anyway.

What he did discover though is turning of Winamp (music player) the double click now worked (I think he may have had to slow down the double click speen in mouse properties as well).

The Logitech Musicmatch Dukebox (I think it was called) also used to cause us problems with running Archicad in the past.

So maybe it is another program running in the background that is causing the problem?
Just a guess.

Barry.

Re: Speed Issues in 2d w/ AC10

Anonymous — Fri, 11 Aug 2006 18:53:49 GMT

I have definately found the issues to be linked to the highlighting option. When it is turned off the buggy behavior seems to go away.

Also noticed as soon as I turned highlighting back on that sometimes when I have selected an object, waited for it to be moveable ( a few seconds) it moves for a bit, the screen redraws and the object is right back where it started, active but unmoved. This whole thing takes about ten seconds and I am back to where I started.

This is the sort of thing I refer to as laggy.

I am keeping highlighting off needless to say. I will look for a keyboard toggle to use it in the 3d window where it behaves very well.

I have also noticed a huge reason for my selction hesitation is my info pallete. I have it extended full height on the left of my screen and when I select a new object it has to refresh all the information and I can literally watch it refresh through the entire length and when it finishes that is when I am able to move the object. Depending on how large an info pallete a specific item has, the lag time is longer or shorter. The lag is proportionate to the size of monitor. My 30" monitor is really bad. The 24" is much better.

When I shrink the info pallette to a small size the hesitation is greatly reduced. Unfortunately I can't think of anyway to correct this aside from shrinking the pallette. Then I have to scroll through it. Then the 30" of real estate seems slightly useless.

Re: Speed Issues in 2d w/ AC10

Richard Morrison — Fri, 11 Aug 2006 20:07:56 GMT

Greg,

What time do you have set for highlighting to appear under the Work Environment, "Selection and Element Information"? Have you tried setting it down to, say, .1 sec. or less?

Also you might try playing with the speed settings for Dialog Boxes and Palettes, too.

Re: Speed Issues in 2d w/ AC10

Anonymous — Sun, 13 Aug 2006 16:25:13 GMT

I have played with the highlighting speed and have set it to a very fast setting.

As far as the speed settings for dialog boxes, etc., I will change those and see if it helps.

My problems are definately related to the refresh speed of the info pallette. If I minimize it my speed returns to pre- AC10 condition in 2D.

I dunno if it is a Graphics card issue or what.

I will post again after tweaking the dialog box settings.

Thanks

Re: Speed Issues in 2d w/ AC10

Anonymous — Wed, 16 Aug 2006 16:12:58 GMT

Yeah,
working in 9 today. I feel liberated in 2d. No lag at all between click and drag. Zero.

Definately an issue with 10 and the way it is using my processor or graphics card.

I have diminished the lag considerably by having a keyboard shortcut for my info pallete. When it is closed or minimized the lag is substantially less though still there. Makes using my 30" monitor a drag as it is by far the slowest with 10. AC9 w/ my 30" monitor absolutely no hesitation.

I am completely frustrated and out of ideas...

I will continue to limp along with my workarounds.

Might try a clean system re-install but the consistency of it and only in 10 makes me doubtful of that being an issue.

Re: Speed Issues in 2d w/ AC10

Anonymous — Wed, 16 Aug 2006 17:08:11 GMT

In hesitation I mean I click something, it is selected but I cannot drag it it until some process that is running in the background completes itself. This takes many seconds.

One of the processes that is linked to the hesitation is the refreshing of the information palette that I usually have open full length so that I can see all settings in one glance. If I click a door for example, the door will highlight and the information palette will start to refresh. I can actually watch the refresh progress down the info palette. When the refresh is completed then, and only then, can I drag or move or do whatever to the door. When I close the info palette, speed increases but still some lag between when I click and when I am able to effect change on the selection. The lag time is in the seconds, sometimes 3 or four seconds. Very noticeable and inhibiting to my workflow as I am used to moving very quickly. In 9 I can move very quickly, in 10 I cannot. It just is not fun where it used to be. (palette size related thus bad on my 30" monitor)

I believe the other processes that are linked to the slowdown are the new highlighting features (I like them but have them turned off to try and speed up my basic clicking and dragging)

In 9 the refreshing of the palette happens after the ability to move the item is established. You can watch it happen. Maximize the information pallette (on small monitor make it large enough to see all information at a glance). Click something and you wont be able to move it until the information palette refreshes. In AC 9 watch and if you click and drag an item the info palette won't refresh until you have completed the action. Different priorities that I assume have changed because of all the highlighting and palette changes.

I believe this is a bug. The ability to move an item should take priority over all other background processes 99% of the time. Only one time in one hundred do I want to hesitate before moving or editting an object. It does in 9 but not in 10.

Quoted myself from another thread. Seems appropriate here.

Feel I have found the root of my 2D problem. Can see the difference plainly between 9 an 10.
Makes me feel better, sort of. Now, is there a setting to change this behavior or is it a bug?

Re: Speed Issues in 2d w/ AC10

Thomas Holm — Wed, 16 Aug 2006 19:36:50 GMT

Greg, I might be a saggy old crocodile, but I have absolutely no problem at all with the 2D speed of Archicad 10. And look at my signature! My system is 1/6th the speed of yours. And I have the info palette open at all times. This leads me to think that your problem is related to something else in your system, not Archicad, unless the project your working in is excessively large.

Re: Speed Issues in 2d w/ AC10

Barry Kelly — Tue, 22 Aug 2006 05:36:53 GMT

I have noticed problems on systems with 2 monitors.
It also seems to depend on what windows (i.e. 2D, 3D) you have on which monitor.
I have only one monitor and have not noticed any problems but plugged in a second and could not select objects in the 3D window if it was on the second screen.
Try switching your system back to just one monitor and see if you have the same trouble?
Barry.

Re: Speed Issues in 2d w/ AC10

Anonymous — Tue, 22 Aug 2006 11:48:40 GMT

Thanks for the input Barry. I have switched to one monitor and that has helped a lot. The scale of monitor real estate is definately related. I have tweaked all of the settings mentioned above and am using the highlighting and tracker and having satisfactory results.

I have gotten used to the rythm of 2d selection in ac10. It is faster than ac9 in so many ways. I can live with the difference in selection speed. (pretty subtle)

I am being hyper-critical I know. Trying for constructive criticism. Just thought it should be pointed out as there is a noticable difference between AC10 and AC9 (on my windows machines at least) because of the new highlighting and information palette (i am guessing). AC10 is faster than AC9 on my machines in every other way...

I would never go back...