topic Re: The Classical Orders in Modeling

The Classical Orders

Erich — Tue, 23 May 2023 15:05:10 GMT

What is the best method, short of GDL - I'm not there...yet, to model a classical column? Say something simple like a tuscan column with a plinth. Looking through the tools available it seems the best option would be to use Profiler. But perhaps someone has a better method or there is something I am missing?

Mathew, doing a search for this subjet I see you mentioning the classical orders a couple of times. What do you do?

It is a shame that the column object that ships with AC is so woefully incorrect. It would be great if it were accurate and could be defined by column diameter which would then set all other attributes.

Re: The Classical Orders

Anonymous — Wed, 10 Oct 2007 02:40:39 GMT

Yes, for a Tuscan column Profiler will work but for the other orders
I think you will need GDL. Alternatively, you could see what you
can find on Objects Online. I know there are several classical column
objects offered there.
Peter Devlin

Re: The Classical Orders

Erich — Wed, 10 Oct 2007 03:00:56 GMT

Peter,

Thanks for the response. Yes I have seen the columns on Object Online. As of yet I haven't downloaded them to try them out.

Right now I am trying to learn as much of AC as possible prior to our office changing from our ancient version of AutoCad. I wanted to get a feel for just how much we will be able to model with the tools immediately at our disposal once we make the plunge. Since we do a lot of classically based residential work the Orders are important for us. I just wanted to make sure that the modeling methods I think are appropriate, truely are the best ones.

Re: The Classical Orders

Erika Epstein — Wed, 10 Oct 2007 03:49:56 GMT

There are columns in the archicad library. Most are in section 03 Concrete.

You can also use the library's search function which will locate a few more.
The top left button of Object Default Settings (cmd+T or ctrl+T) allows you to switch the library organization from CSI standard folders, Subtype View and Find Library Parts.

Another helpful resource if you are new to archicad is a pdf of the library which you can find under the HELP menu. This you can download to your computer and/or print out.

HTH

Re: The Classical Orders

Erich — Wed, 10 Oct 2007 04:09:47 GMT

Erika,

Thanks, I have already explored the included columns. Unfortunatly, they are not correct and only become worse should you try to scale them. Also, in AC 11 in the US library at least, there is only a Doric option.

As for the pdf file showing the library, I do not seem have that option in AC 11.

Re: The Classical Orders

Erika Epstein — Wed, 10 Oct 2007 04:26:46 GMT

Erich,
Under the Help menu, below the pdf symbols are websites. If you go the Library website you will be at a pdf which you view online or download.

Re: The Classical Orders

Erich — Wed, 10 Oct 2007 04:42:35 GMT

Erika,

Ah, I hadn't looked at that one yet and did not realize it led to a web link with a PDF. Thanks.

Re: The Classical Orders

Anonymous — Wed, 10 Oct 2007 07:57:11 GMT

Erich wrote:
Mathew, doing a search for this subjet I see you mentioning the classical orders a couple of times. What do you do?

It's been a while since I needed true classical orders (I'm in California now), but when I did, the only solution I found was to make them up custom and/or cobble them together from odd bits. Sadly it seems that the orders have been out of fashion long enough now that the authors of what parts we do have didn't bother to make them able to take proper proportions.

The good news is that the only really hard part is the columns (particularly the capitals). Entablatures, cornices, pediments and even pulvinated zoetropes are pretty easy with the complex profiles. You can even get a proper cornice to rake joint if you take the time to make the right profiles and miter them vertically with SEOs.

Simple dentils, modillions and glyphs are easy enough, but can get a little fussy unless you have the time and skill to program a little GDL. Elaborate carvings are obviously a problem, but egg and dart can be pretty well represented with a well crafted material.

To get decent columns you may want to try assembling them from the best bits you can find. That way you may be able to adjust the capital, shaft and plinth to their proper proportions. When all else fails, just get them as close as you can and paste good line drawings into the elevations.

BTW: There do seem to be some decent corinthian columns at archive3d.net, but the one I just downloaded is hugely complex. I have also yet to find an ionic order that doesn't look like a cartoon.

Re: The Classical Orders

Chazz — Wed, 10 Oct 2007 12:43:01 GMT

Matthew wrote:
and even pulvinated zoetropes are pretty easy

If only this forum had a quote of the day.... This would be it!

Re: The Classical Orders

Thomas Holm — Wed, 10 Oct 2007 14:09:04 GMT

The D3 smart parts Trim library contains some customizable columns and caps that look quite good, with entasis and all. (but I'm no expert).
http://www.ddgi.com/object_shop/d3sp-shop01-libs-tr.html

Re: The Classical Orders

Anonymous — Wed, 10 Oct 2007 16:45:25 GMT

Thomas wrote:
The D3 smart parts Trim library contains some customizable columns and caps that look quite good, with entasis and all. (but I'm no expert).
http://www.ddgi.com/object_shop/d3sp-shop01-libs-tr.html

Yup, Niel's stuff is probably the best out there (I probably should have mentioned that myself) but I still found it impossible to adjust them precisely for particular orders. Part of the problem of course is that there are no hard and fast rules about the proportions. Beyond the basic five classical orders (of which there are many variations in Greek and Roman examples) there variations by Vitruvius, Scomozzi, Bramante, in the renaissance to Robert Adam, Robert Orr and others today.

If anybody is interested, a good reference to the orders is available for free download from google at:

The Study of the Orders

Re: The Classical Orders

Erich — Wed, 10 Oct 2007 19:52:19 GMT

Mathew & Thomas,

While I know about the D3 columns, I had not seen one closely enough to tell how good they are, Many things look quite nice when seen small but can prove otherwise. It sounds as though they are reasonably correct which is good.

Since the D3 parts are not part of AC are there file management issues beyond general library management? If one does not have the D3 parts will they show up in a file or do you just get a dot?

Re: The Classical Orders

Anonymous — Wed, 10 Oct 2007 20:38:32 GMT

Erich wrote:
Mathew & Thomas,

While I know about the D3 columns, I had not seen one closely enough to tell how good they are, Many things look quite nice when seen small but can prove otherwise. It sounds as though they are reasonably correct which is good.

Since the D3 parts are not part of AC are there file management issues beyond general library management? If one does not have the D3 parts will they show up in a file or do you just get a dot?

The usual management issues apply. If you don't have the library all you get is the dot.

Re: The Classical Orders

Thomas Holm — Wed, 10 Oct 2007 22:26:07 GMT

Matthew wrote:
Beyond the basic five classical orders (of which there are many variations in Greek and Roman examples) there variations by Vitruvius, Scomozzi, Bramante, in the renaissance to Robert Adam, Robert Orr and others today.

And not the least important: Palladio!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Palladio

Re: The Classical Orders

Anonymous — Thu, 11 Oct 2007 07:19:22 GMT

Thomas wrote:
Matthew wrote:
Beyond the basic five classical orders (of which there are many variations in Greek and Roman examples) there variations by Vitruvius, Scomozzi, Bramante, in the renaissance to Robert Adam, Robert Orr and others today.
And not the least important: Palladio!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Palladio

Well, yeah, you've got me there. And then there's that Michelangelo guy...but then he didn't write the books (or any?).

Re: The Classical Orders

Anonymous — Mon, 17 Dec 2007 12:29:56 GMT

Hello, everyone.

Erich wrote:
Also, in AC 11 in the US library at least, there is only a Doric option.

In all libraries is "Column Architectural". Column contains different order. "Tuscan", "Doric", "Ionic" user accessible. "Corinthian" and "Composite" hidden from the user.
Find lines in a Parameters script:

values "ctyp" `Tuscan`,`Doric`,`Ionic`
!!!values "ctyp" `Tuscan`,`Doric`,`Ionic`,`Corinthian`,`Composite`

Rewrite them as follows:

!!!values "ctyp" `Tuscan`,`Doric`,`Ionic`
values "ctyp" `Tuscan`,`Doric`,`Ionic`,`Corinthian`,`Composite`

Re: The Classical Orders

Erich — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 02:37:30 GMT

Valery,

Thanks for the heads up on the presence of the other capitals.

I am finding that the column object is a bit buggy but perhaps I can clean the script up once I learn a bit more GDL.