topic Re: Help on a very complex roof in Modeling

Help on a very complex roof

Anonymous — Tue, 23 May 2023 13:42:28 GMT

Hey i trying to design a roof based on the Transparent Roof created in Eric Owen Moss's project, the "Umbrella"
Here's a link to some photos of the roof i am talking about.
http://www.ericowenmoss.com/projindex.html
Just chose Umbrella as the project.
I was wondering if anyone knew how to create rooves like these on archicadd. And how do you add support structures, like the steel supporting structures shown in the photo, on archicad.
I am a student architect and none of my archicad tutors (who are student tutors) were able to help me. What i mainly want to know is how to creat the cascading glass and how to add the steel supports.
Thank you. I would be very appreciative of any help.

Re: Help on a very complex roof

Djordje — Sun, 23 May 2004 11:36:51 GMT

squidgy_wiji wrote:
I was wondering if anyone knew how to create rooves like these on archicadd. And how do you add support structures, like the steel supporting structures shown in the photo, on archicad.

Try ArchiForma. Look for GDL Toolbox. Look for ZoomGDL. Learn GDL and script a COONS surface. In order of complexity, least to most time spent learning.

The support structures are nothing special, TrussMaker would suffice for most, except maybe the tubing that is quite articstically wrapped around. There again, any of the AddOns would do, if linear even "lowly" Profiler.

This is not very easy to model in any software. The hardest part of it is to understand the geometry correctly. Do you understand the geometry? That is something no software will do for you.

I wish you to do something like this in your professional life. Not many do.

I am really sorry Graphisoft discontinued the GS Prize, worldwide design competition. Some quite crazy stuff was being shown there, all done in ArchiCAD of course! To remember: http://www.gsprize.com

Re: Help on a very complex roof

Anonymous — Sun, 23 May 2004 14:00:12 GMT

Thank you so much for your help. Yes i understand the geometry well. I am really interested in things like the helix curve and mobius strip so i hope to be show my interest in these geometries in my designs. Thanks again.

Re: Help on a very complex roof

Anonymous — Sun, 23 May 2004 18:43:51 GMT

I think you could make the roof with the mesh tool, using the
surface only construction method and with individual elevation points
(no ridge lines). You would have to SEO the curved bottom edge
with another mesh.
The tubing could be made with the orbit solutions add-on called
orbit 3d profiler. http://www.orbitsolutions.com.au/
Otherwise Djordje is right, you need GDL.
If you are interested in geometry I would highly recommend
learning GDL. It's fun!
Peter Devlin

Re: Help on a very complex roof

Steve Jepson — Sun, 23 May 2004 22:10:39 GMT

I didn't see anything you couldn't model with ArchiCAD tools. The Mesh Tool, Profiler, and Solid Element Operations should be enough to do the job. Other tools would be great if you have them. You can do a lot by saving a part that you have tweaked with the solid elements editor and adding other parts to it. I don't think the roofs will be hard at all. Use the spline tool to make the profile and the Profile tool to extrude it. Then shape it with the Solid Element Operations tool.
You are lucky to have the opportunity to model a building like this.

Re: Help on a very complex roof

Steve Jepson — Mon, 24 May 2004 00:35:25 GMT

I think this is the kind of roof you would like to make.

QUEENS MUSEUM OF ART
Queens, New York
RECOLLECTING FORWARD

The design strategy for the Queens Museum of Art uncovers the organizational strengths of the original building and simultaneously suggests new prospects for public participation, exhibition and performance.

AWARDS:
International Design Competition Winner, 2001

Re: Help on a very complex roof

Anonymous — Mon, 24 May 2004 17:12:41 GMT

I am interesting to make those curve ceiling, too. I try mesh tool, but somehow it still look flat after I made it. I try Archiforma, but after I put into the add-ons folder it still not appear in ArchiCAD extra. I got stuck with working the similer ceiling. I even try to make S shape curve ceiling, and try to rotate the angle in 3D, but it only rotate horantial not vertical. Any suggestion to make this project done?

I also interest to make the structure floow the curve ceiling.

Re: Help on a very complex roof

Steve Jepson — Mon, 24 May 2004 19:57:14 GMT

I also interest to make the structure floow the curve ceiling.

There are several ways to make the curved ceiling. The Profiler does a good job.
The one in this example is made by making the curve of the ceiling with the spline tool. Then select a wall and give it the thickness you want for the ceiling. Use the magic wand to convert the spline into walls, explode the walls so you have parallel curves(hard to draw otherwise), delete the fills, set the slab thickness to the width of the room, use the magic wand to create a slab between the parallel curves, select the side view in 3d and save as .gsm. Place the new object on your plan, view in 3d, use the solid obects editor to trim it up. When you have it how you like it, save it again as a new object if you want. You could just make curved walls of the right thickness and make the ceiling from that except it will not be as smooth as making it from a slab. To make ceiling tiles just make a grid of thin walls and use the solid objects editor to create the individual tiles. (don't delete the object you use to trim with, just put them on an invisible layer)You can use the 3D text tool to carve your name in the ceiling if you want to.

The solid objects editor is my favorite tool. Draw it up in plan view, view it in 3D side view (or top) and make it into a new object. Trim it up with the solid objects editor and save it. You can keep adding and trimming the same object to make anything you want.

Re: Help on a very complex roof

Steve Jepson — Mon, 24 May 2004 20:21:16 GMT

kind of fun

Re: Help on a very complex roof

Anonymous — Mon, 24 May 2004 23:44:38 GMT

But the one you make all curve in one way. Do you know how to make curve in different direction just like the picture model-front.jpg you post earlier?

Re: Help on a very complex roof

Steve Jepson — Wed, 26 May 2004 02:51:45 GMT

No. I can't do it using only ArchiCAD.

Re: Help on a very complex roof

Anonymous — Wed, 26 May 2004 03:56:41 GMT

As I mentioned before in this thread, the glass roof pictured in
model-front.jpg and the one mentioned by squidgy_wiji
can be modeled in Archicad.
In versions prior to AC 8 it can only be modeled as a surface
with a surface only MESH.
In AC 8 it can be modeled as a solid using a solid Mesh (with skirt).
Model the surface topology you want and then de-elevate a copy
the amount of the thickness of the glass and with SEO subtract
the under side of the first MESH then hide the copy.
This results in a solid element with the topology desired
and having a thickness of what ever you want and showes as
solid in the Section/Elevation window.
Peter Devlin

Re: Help on a very complex roof

Steve Jepson — Wed, 26 May 2004 04:03:03 GMT

Peter wrote:
As I mentioned before in this thread, the glass roof pictured in
model-front.jpg and the one mentioned by squidgy_wiji
can be modeled in Archicad.

I agree, that is the best method and it works, however, the resulting curves are not smooth.

What does yours look like?

Re: Help on a very complex roof

Anonymous — Wed, 26 May 2004 04:38:19 GMT

Steve,
As you no doubt know no 3D surfaces are truly curves.
They are always composed of planer polygons.
The mesh is no different.
The smoothness of any mesh depends on the density of
points that you put into it and anticipating how AC
will connect the points with triangular flat planes.
Anticipating how AC will connect the dots can be tricky
and downright baffling at times.
I have not made a glass roof like the one pictured but I have made many
freeform or "organic" forms with the mesh tool using only independent points no ridges that appear quite smooth.
The trick is to have small incremental change in the elevation
and distance of adjacent points which means lots and lots of points.
Peter Devlin

Re: Help on a very complex roof

Steve Jepson — Wed, 26 May 2004 06:59:25 GMT

I am to impatient for that. I was able to kind of do it with some ArchiForma help. I had to load 7.0 again because I don't have the ArchiForma upgrade yet which may make it easier. I hooked some archs together along a curve, and extruded along another set of curves. This method should allow for a good deal of precession and control since you can create an exact profile in both directions. Then sandwich a slab or mesh and use the SEO to subtract with upwards and downwards extrusions for the final roof object.

Re: Help on a very complex roof

Djordje — Wed, 26 May 2004 18:19:20 GMT

Steve wrote:
I am to impatient for that. I was able to kind of do it with some ArchiForma help. I had to load 7.0 again because I don't have the ArchiForma upgrade yet which may make it easier. I hooked some archs together along a curve, and extruded along another set of curves. This method should allow for a good deal of precession and control since you can create an exact profile in both directions. Then sandwich a slab or mesh and use the SEO to subtract with upwards and downwards extrusions for the final roof object.

Nope. Cannot use zero thickness stuff as operators for SEO.

For correct section, suplicate the same surface the thickness of the structure above.

Re: Help on a very complex roof

Anonymous — Wed, 26 May 2004 18:25:13 GMT

Steve,
I don't have ArchiForma.
I had heard that the scripts it generates
are all in primitives therefore making tweaking
very difficult. Is it true that ArchiForma scripts
are all written in primitives ?
Also, is the object pictured in your image show as solid
if you cut through it with the section/elevation tool ?
Peter

Re: Help on a very complex roof

Steve Jepson — Wed, 26 May 2004 18:38:55 GMT

Peter,
Djeordje is right you can not use the SOE with zero thickness objects. The object does show up in cross sections and elevations but only as a line. I do not know how to make a solid from it. How do you suplicate this form in to a solid Djordje ?

Re: Help on a very complex roof

Anonymous — Wed, 26 May 2004 21:05:06 GMT

Steve,
when you make curved ceiling, how do you make the ceiling cover with tiles?
I hear it's easier to use ArchiTiles to make tile. Do you put the tile with ArchiTiles or you have other way to make it happen?

Re: Help on a very complex roof

Steve Jepson — Wed, 26 May 2004 21:29:53 GMT

Ashley,

I just made a grid of 1" thick walls that extended up through the ceiling and used SEO (Solids Editing Operations) to cut away the ceiling. It only takes a few clicks to do this. A very nice result is when you trim the walls to the curved ceiling, then raise all of the trimmed walls 1/2" or so and then use the SEO to cut out the grid. The result is a recessed grid. You can have the properties of the walls go with the ceiling, the recessed grid will be a different color which not only looks cool but will help you get the grid to show up just right in a rendering. I use a light grey with white ceilings. If you make the ceiling thick enough you can use the SEO to cut out coffers in a waffelike pattern just like the Pantheon in Rome.