topic Re: Zone Gross Area Does Not Show in Stamp,Why? in Modeling

Zone Gross Area Does Not Show in Stamp,Why?

Anonymous — Fri, 12 Nov 2004 17:28:09 GMT

Hi,
I have started to use Zones, but I am having problem for the Stamp to show the Gross area even-though I have chosen the last icon, the GROSS radio button, it always shows the Net area?!
Also the colors zone area does not extend to the reference line of the surrounding walls for the GROSS option as it shows on page 296 of manual (on line help gives a better picture). I am using the "Zone Identifier 2", any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Joseph Harouni

Re: Zone Gross Area Does Not Show in Stamp,Why?

Anonymous — Mon, 15 Nov 2004 07:54:02 GMT

Hi Joseph,

... having problem for the Stamp to show the Gross area even-though I have chosen the last icon, the GROSS radio button, it always shows the Net area?!

I believe that this is the way it's considered work (?) The only difference between net and gross area is that the net area recognizes the inner boundaries of the room's surrounding walls - Zone is placed inside this boundary. and gives you the measured area.
The same measured area commes up when selecting the gross alternative, but the zone boundaries finds the walls' reference lines instead (measured area will be the same in the 2 alternatives).

You can always check the additional zone calculation settings under Options/Preferences/Zones if you'd like to finetune it.

Also the colors zone area does not extend to the reference line of the surrounding walls for the GROSS option ...

Use the "Bring to front" option under Tools/Display Order to move the 2D Zone fill "above" the walls' fills (when zones are active in plan that is)

Re: Zone Gross Area Does Not Show in Stamp,Why?

Anonymous — Mon, 15 Nov 2004 17:44:15 GMT

Susanne wrote:
Hi Joseph,
You can always check the additional zone calculation settings under Options/Preferences/Zones if you'd like to finetune it.

Thanks for the help,
I did tried to fine tune in Preferences/Zones but still I get the net area vs. desired GROSS (I checked off wall & column subtraction). Am I missing a point or it is not doable? If not what is the purpose of GROSS area (our code in Los Angeles, CA requires that measurement).
Thanks,
Joseph

Re: Zone Gross Area Does Not Show in Stamp,Why?

Anonymous — Tue, 16 Nov 2004 07:14:53 GMT

I did tried to fine tune in Preferences/Zones but still I get the net area vs. desired GROSS (I checked off wall & column subtraction). Am I missing a point or it is not doable? If not what is the purpose of GROSS area (our code in Los Angeles, CA requires that measurement).

It might be a mistake from GS's side cause one would think that gross area should add number of meters as it extends the boundaries for the zone.

You can always use the "free hand" construction method (# 1 in my pict);
-if it is an enclosed area just do your settings for the zone tool and be sure to select alt. 1 button in constr. meth. Then just "space bar"+ click in the enclosed area and AC will find the closest boundaries.

-or click your way around the needed area just like you'd do with poly forms for fills and slabs ....

Re: Zone Gross Area Does Not Show in Stamp,Why?

Aaron Bourgoin — Tue, 16 Nov 2004 17:08:12 GMT

I think Joseph has found or is first to get to a problem with the GROSS Area tool. I see a correct calculated value in the dialog box, but can't do anything to get it to display the proper value.

Using the gross area zone category, turning the room name off then selecting use category as name and turning the zone name back on, I was able to get GROSS AREA to show up on the label, but not the dispayed value for Gross area as its is displayed in the Zone Settings dialog.

The workaround until this is addressed is to use the manual setting and define the boundary of your GROSS Area manually. You might have to do that in any case as different authorities or standards bodies will define GROSS area differently. Findinng the wall reference line is a good first step, but not neccessarily the final determinant of your gross area boundary.

Re: Zone Gross Area Does Not Show in Stamp,Why?

Anonymous — Tue, 16 Nov 2004 21:26:31 GMT

Hi Joseph,

Are you using the "Basic Zone Stamp"? If so you'll need to change the GDL code to show the gross SF of the zone. Select a zone stamp, choose File/GDL Objects/Open Object and open the 2D script. Go to line 23 which reads:

roomAreaStr = str (areaFormat, ROOM_CALC_AREA)

and change it to:

roomAreaStr = str (areaFormat, ROOM_AREA)

and save your changes. If you aren't using the Basic Zone Stamp chances are the problem's the same, it was programmed to show the net area or calculated area and not the gross area of the zone.

Re: Zone Gross Area Does Not Show in Stamp,Why?

Aaron Bourgoin — Tue, 16 Nov 2004 21:52:37 GMT

Steve,

That's one "insert miracle here" closer to finishing the day. Thanks!

Re: Zone Gross Area Does Not Show in Stamp,Why?

Aussie John — Wed, 17 Nov 2004 04:11:52 GMT

You can use the zone polygon menu to select the gross or net floor. What I havent been able to determine if there is a global variable to determine if the zone is GFA or net. This would be useful because the text GFA or NET could then be applied to the zone. Any ideas?

Re: Zone Gross Area Does Not Show in Stamp,Why?

Aussie John — Wed, 17 Nov 2004 05:30:06 GMT

Steve.Campbell wrote:
roomAreaStr = str (areaFormat, ROOM_CALC_AREA)

This gives the calculated area (whatever that is as it appears to be effected by the elevation)

roomAreaStr = str (areaFormat, ROOM_NET_AREA)
gives the net area (area to edge of zone boundary)

Re: Zone Gross Area Does Not Show in Stamp,Why?

Anonymous — Wed, 17 Nov 2004 07:10:09 GMT

I think Joseph has found or is first to get to a problem with the GROSS Area tool. I see a correct calculated value in the dialog box, but can't do anything to get it to display the proper value.

I've uploaded the incorrect functionality for the Gross alternative as a question to GS support.
I'll get back with the answer here, when received from GS

Re: Zone Gross Area Does Not Show in Stamp,Why?

Anonymous — Tue, 23 Nov 2004 12:53:16 GMT

Susanne wrote:
I think Joseph has found or is first to get to a problem with the GROSS Area tool. I see a correct calculated value in the dialog box, but can't do anything to get it to display the proper value.

I've uploaded the incorrect functionality for the Gross alternative as a question to GS support.
I'll get back with the answer here, when received from GS

Below is GS' answer to this topic:

"It`s a feature.
When you select the third geometry method in the Zone Settings Dialog you can set Gross or Netto as Zone Polygone :

- Netto: the polygone of the zone will show the area between the inner
edges of the wall.

- Gross: the polygone will show the area within the reference lines of the
wall.

So at this setting you define only the shape of the zone, but not the
calculated values that the zone stamp shows.

Measured Net Area and Measured Gross Area show the real calculated values depending on the real polygones` areas.
It means that the Measured Gross Area will show the area of the Gross Zone Polygone. The lists use this value, they calculate with it."

If you want to change your stamp to actually show the gross area (when Calc. lists are not applicable):

"1. You need to introduce a fix parameter : Room_Poly_Status then hide it.

It can get 3 values :

0 - if the first or the second Geometry method is active

1 - if the third Geometry method / Net is selected

2 - if the third Geometry method / Gross is selected

See the screenshot!

2. In the 2D script you need to do some changes - see the screenshot

Attached you can find a gsm object as well that illustrates the new way of
working."

Please see the attached pict's & .gsm

Re: Zone Gross Area Does Not Show in Stamp,Why?

Karl Ottenstein — Sat, 15 Jan 2011 21:23:55 GMT

Bumping this thread...

So many years later ... thanks for this discussion and the suggested changes to a zone stamp to get Gross Area to display properly.

Just ran into the exact situation as Jay had when he started this very similar topic a few years ago:
http://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=6707

I had never noticed this problem with the third (auto-to-reference line) geometry of the zone tool.

It seems totally illogical to me that the "show gross" or "show net" has only to do with how the zone polygon displays.

It also makes ZERO sense to me that we cannot get the desired result with the NET area ... if the Zone Options are set up to NOT subtract wall volumes, then it should not matter that the zone extends through exterior walls to the reference lines. The NET and GROSS should be identical when the zone options do not allow any subtraction.

In another thread, Laszlo Nagy links to an article he wrote here:
http://helpcenter.graphisoft.com/guides/gdl-guide-for-archicad-18/chapter-12-miscellaneous/fix-named-optional-parameters/#RoomParametersForZones_section
which explains some of the net vs gross issues. Yet, it still defies logic in my mind. Net, without any permitted subtractions, should equal gross.

Grateful that ac-talk conversations are archived this far into the past so that old workarounds can be found again. 🙂

Thanks,
Karl

Re: Zone Gross Area Does Not Show in Stamp,Why?

Karl Ottenstein — Sat, 15 Jan 2011 22:39:02 GMT

I've just posted a version of the "Zone Identifier 2 14" to the Depository which includes the modifications that GS gave to Susanne below as well as some other minor changes:

Modified version of the AC 14 zone stamp "Zone Identifier 2 14". The changes include:
(1) Making the area prefix parametric, rather than just "A:"
(2) Adding an optional suffix indicating whether NET or GROSS area is being reported
(3) Added the code from this post:
http://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?p=26271
so that if the third geometry method is selected (auto detect boundary to reference lines), then the GROSS zone area is reported
(4) Made all Imperial units show up in upper case rather than lower. Replace "sq. ft." with "SF".

Note: the units used for this and the standard stamps for formatting the area are from the Dimension settings for fills/area, not the Calculate settings.

This may satisfy the needs of some. Others might want to be able to parametrically choose gross or net, which would require further modifications.

http://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/object_depository.php?browse=Depository/01%20General/Custom%20Labels

Re: Zone Gross Area Does Not Show in Stamp,Why?

Anonymous — Sun, 23 Jan 2011 14:28:27 GMT

Is there anyway to turn on a auto update on the zone tag?

Re: Zone Gross Area Does Not Show in Stamp,Why?

Laszlo Nagy — Sun, 23 Jan 2011 14:36:40 GMT

Auto update depends on how the Zone Stamp's GDL is written.
Some Stamps are written to display the area of the polygon. These will update automatically at every change of the Zone polygon's shape.
Other Stamps are written to display the calculated area, which takes into consideration deduction by reason of Columns, Low Areas etc. These will update only when the Update Zones command is used.
As I saw earlier localized versions vary in which way each of their Zone Stamps are written.
Even within the same localized version one Zone Stamp may auto-update, others may not.