topic Re: ArchiCAD Structural Grid useless in Modeling

ArchiCAD Structural Grid useless

Electric Flute — Thu, 20 Apr 2006 14:56:12 GMT

I think "Structural Grid" under Tools menu is the most useless tool Graphisoft ever created. It has potential to be a very handy one, but not as is actually now.
Structural Grids should be automatically inserted along current wall/posts in a project like "Automatic Dimensioning" does.
Please Graphisoft beware that projects are not always a perfect square/radial grid!

Any thoughts?

Re: ArchiCAD Structural Grid useless

TomWaltz — Thu, 20 Apr 2006 18:11:32 GMT

Electric wrote:
I think "Structural Grid" under Tools menu is the most useless tool Graphisoft ever created. It has potential to be a very handy one, but not as is actually now.
Structural Grids should be automatically inserted along current wall/posts in a project like "Automatic Dimensioning" does.
Please Graphisoft beware that projects are not always a perfect square/radial grid!

Any thoughts?

Trust me, there are less useful ones...

It's nothing more than a grid-placement tool. I gave up on it about 10 minutes after we got Archicad (along with Automated Dimensions and Plotmake Live-Linking),

Re: ArchiCAD Structural Grid useless

Anonymous — Thu, 20 Apr 2006 21:54:17 GMT

TomWaltz wrote:
I gave up on it about 10 minutes after we got Archicad (along with Automated Dimensions and Plotmake Live-Linking),

Hmmm... this is interesting. Why give up on Automated Dimensions? Yes, they need to be tweaked after inserting (and could definitely benefit from a tune-up), but they still make things easier than having to go to each window hotspot, and hitting it dead on.

And the same thing for Live-Linking. Not the best, but this one I could probably understand a bit better. We're still using it but I'm considering a count-down. Then again, I hear it won't be an issue anymore in v10.

Re: ArchiCAD Structural Grid useless

Anonymous — Fri, 21 Apr 2006 01:04:42 GMT

I am also not so down on auto-dimensioning and live linking as Tom.

As long as projects are small enough to work with live links it's worth taking advantage of them. On large projects I switch to PMKs in DD.

The auto-dimensions are also useful for running a quick check of the model. It only takes a few seconds to see if there are any stray 1/64" inches around and it is handy for running a check plot to compare to as-builts. A slightly less noble use is to get "lines on paper" on short notice for a client meeting (only in SD or early DD of course).

Re: ArchiCAD Structural Grid useless

Haneef Tayob — Fri, 21 Apr 2006 07:01:55 GMT

TomWaltz wrote:
I gave up on it about 10 minutes after we got Archicad (along with Automated Dimensions and Plotmake Live-Linking),

...and I thought we were the only ones!

Re: ArchiCAD Structural Grid useless

Aaron Bourgoin — Fri, 21 Apr 2006 07:17:54 GMT

I guess your not designing Shopping Centres.

Re: ArchiCAD Structural Grid useless

TomWaltz — Fri, 21 Apr 2006 11:02:16 GMT

Sergio wrote:
Hmmm... this is interesting. Why give up on Automated Dimensions? Yes, they need to be tweaked after inserting (and could definitely benefit from a tune-up), but they still make things easier than having to go to each window hotspot, and hitting it dead on.

When the dimensions do not hit any of the points that you want (like masonry openings or centerlines of walls), they are not much use. I would rather see someone dimension their exterior manually and know that they actually make sense than rely on an automated routine that dumps hundreds of unusable (read: not useful for the builder) dimensions on a drawing.

It's a feature that looks great when GS is marketing Archicad, but iI have yet to see it be useful in real life.

And the same thing for Live-Linking. Not the best, but this one I could probably understand a bit better. We're still using it but I'm considering a count-down. Then again, I hear it won't be an issue anymore in v10.

Live-linking in Plotmaker has failed miserably so many times and caused to many errors that forced projects to be switched to PMKs, it's the users who decided to kill it. When 20 people say "No, let's use PMKs. They're a pain, but they WORK", I'm not going to argue. Especially when I think it's one of the buggiest things I've ever seen, and it's two releases old now. That's pretty pathetic.

Re: ArchiCAD Structural Grid useless

Anonymous — Fri, 21 Apr 2006 13:59:25 GMT

Live-linking in Plotmaker has failed miserably so many times and caused to many errors that forced projects to be switched to PMKs, it's the users who decided to kill it. When 20 people say "No, let's use PMKs. They're a pain, but they WORK", I'm not going to argue. Especially when I think it's one of the buggiest things I've ever seen, and it's two releases old now. That's pretty pathetic.

I find it interesting that you don't use live linking. I use live linking without issue and have never looked back. What problems have you had using live linking? It makes my life soooo much easier than in the PMK days..

Re: ArchiCAD Structural Grid useless

TomWaltz — Fri, 21 Apr 2006 14:40:12 GMT

Mike wrote:
I find it interesting that you don't use live linking. I use live linking without issue and have never looked back. What problems have you had using live linking? It makes my life soooo much easier than in the PMK days..

Let's see:

It fails to update about 50% of the time.
It crashes about 25% of the time.
It thinks you should update the entire 100 MB project when you change one note in a single detail. You cannot tell how extensive the changes are if they were made by others on your team. Either the whole project is OK or the whole project is Outdated.
It is PAINFULLY slow waiting for BGArchicad to open a project you may already have open in both Plotmaker and Archicad.
Something as simple as a library loading error can freak it out.
It cannot update while a Send & Receive is occurring to the project

I have found that live-linking works very well on a local machine. Even on a simple 2-machine network at home, I found its performance dramatically reduced. On a 60-person network and multiple team members plus teamwork to deal with, it's almost unusable.

Re: ArchiCAD Structural Grid useless

Anonymous — Sat, 22 Apr 2006 00:08:15 GMT

I agree with Mike Hann. After 15 years of using AutoCAD and considering myself an advanced user, I switched to ArchiCAD 2 years ago. We use it on a five machine network (windows) with a file server and the only time I have had it not update is when I or someone in my office has failed to send the revisions to the .plp file with a send and receive.

I have not had Plotmaker crash at all when doing an update. "It" doesn't force me to update at all let alone the entire layout book when you can simply highlight the specific drawing and do a single update. I decide not Plotmaker.

Yes, BGArchiCAD is slower but that is solveable over time.

I have never had it "freak out" with a library loading error. I have simply been notified. No big deal.

Live links are the only way to go. .PMK's are sooo 20th century. The beauty of ArchiCAD is having it do the production heavy lifting in the background. It may be a slight pain for tech guys but for me as an architect, I just want to design while ArchiCAD and Plotmaker get dirt under their nails.

Re: ArchiCAD Structural Grid useless

TomWaltz — Sat, 22 Apr 2006 02:57:00 GMT

I have a strong suspicion that the BGArchicad/Live Linking problems are specific to Macs on a network. Most single-user Macs and all Windows users tell me it's fine. The ones who have big Apple networks though....

Re: ArchiCAD Structural Grid useless

Chazz — Mon, 24 Apr 2006 14:23:57 GMT

gbley wrote:
The beauty of ArchiCAD is having it do the production heavy lifting in the background.....I just want to design while ArchiCAD and Plotmaker get dirt under their nails.

This is actually the thing I worry about with AC10. So now we'll have PM inside AC. That sounds great on marketing collateral but does this mean that doing a big (linked) update will tie up AC10? So now you have to run a second instance of the app to get any work done? Sounds like a step backward to me. Doing layout in a separate application always seemed appropriate and made intuitive sense to me.

wise wrote:
If it ain't broke, fix it 'till it is

Re: ArchiCAD Structural Grid useless

Anonymous — Tue, 25 Apr 2006 13:33:52 GMT

TomWaltz wrote:
I have a strong suspicion that the BGArchicad/Live Linking problems are specific to Macs on a network. Most single-user Macs and all Windows users tell me it's fine. The ones who have big Apple networks though....

No so Tom. I have a Windows based client who had the file linking problems show up on their first project around late DD. We switched to publishing PMKs and they were all happy again. (Especially with the speed and flexibility it affords.)

Andy Thomson might have something to add to this. He is at a big Windows based firm in Toronto and AFAIK they have been using PMKs. I am not sure if this was a response to problems they were having, or simply something Andy set up considering the problems we went through together out here (at a Mac based office).

Re: ArchiCAD Structural Grid useless

Haneef Tayob — Mon, 01 May 2006 14:12:32 GMT

I recall the wish for revamping the structual grid being in the wish list a while back.
I've seen another cad program where if one adjusts the structural grid, associated walls and columns move with it. A similiar process applied in section, where moving the structural grid up or down, resulted in the associated slabs, walls, etc moving with it.

Re: ArchiCAD Structural Grid useless

TomWaltz — Mon, 01 May 2006 14:24:11 GMT

Haneef wrote:
I recall the wish for revamping the structual grid being in the wish list a while back.
I've seen another cad program where if one adjusts the structural grid, associated walls and columns move with it. A similiar process applied in section, where moving the structural grid up or down, resulted in the associated slabs, walls, etc moving with it.

Gee, that sounds an awful lot like what Building Information Modeling and Parametric Buildings is all about.... I like it!