topic Re: Corner Trim on Wood Siding - Possible? in Modeling

Corner Trim on Wood Siding - Possible?

Anonymous — Tue, 17 Feb 2004 20:07:43 GMT

I am wondering how to attach wood corner trim to houses with wood siding. I want them to show up in the elevations automatically. Also, what about brick quoins a the corners. Any traditional residential master out there?

Thanks,
Stan

Re: Corner Trim on Wood Siding - Possible?

Karl Ottenstein — Tue, 17 Feb 2004 20:33:14 GMT

Archimac wrote:
I am wondering how to attach wood corner trim to houses with wood siding. I want them to show up in the elevations automatically. Also, what about brick quoins a the corners. Any traditional residential master out there?

Corner boards are most easily done IMHO with tiny thin walls - because you can trim them to the roof. Use an intersection priority number that is unique, so they do not clean up to the adjacent exterior walls. Their fill should be solid so that they stand out against the horizontal fill of the adjacent siding. If you don't have a belly band/etc and want the corner board to cover multiple floors, just make it a really tall wall on a single floor unless you want them to show up on all floor plans. (You can move and stretch the corner-board wall in the 3D window to get the correct base and height.) I only show them on elevations and exterior renderings (and so have them in a layer that ony shows up in those combos) and call them out on the elevation.

If you want them to show up in every floor's plan you have to put pieces of them (or an exploded version of them) on every story since ArchiCAD doesn't have a 'show on all floors' option for walls.

You can find a quoin object under Object Library / Masonry / Wall Extras.

HTH,
Karl

PS If you will be changing your model much, you would be better advised to use solid element ops to subtract the roofs from the corner boards and exterior walls (rather than use trim-to-roof)... by the time you put in corner boards, there is just way to much undo-trim, re-trim work to do if the exterior walls, roofs, or their elevations relative to one another are still changing.

Re: Corner Trim on Wood Siding - Possible?

Anonymous — Tue, 17 Feb 2004 22:46:25 GMT

Great info Karl!

At least I know there is a possible way to do it. Do you know where I can find good tutorials on traditional architecture (residential) using Archicad. Or maybe good add-ons etc.? I am currently playing with the demo which is a simple building but far from reality. I would want to know that Archicad can do all these things before I bought it for sure.

Stan

Re: Corner Trim on Wood Siding - Possible?

Stephen Dolbee — Tue, 17 Feb 2004 22:50:08 GMT

I do exactly as Karl suggests. I sometimes wish a corner board could automatically be placed at each wall corner, though. Should that be a "wish"?

Steve

Re: Corner Trim on Wood Siding - Possible?

Anonymous — Tue, 17 Feb 2004 23:46:31 GMT

Stan,

I am 2 months into AC and do 98% residential work. I have thought on Occasion AC could be well served to provide a Residential version but carefully selected add-ons will do the trick but still muddling through the commercial parts of the libraries and AC.. wonder if there is a way to weed out library items i absolutely will never use...

Your question helped me.. I keep assembling tips and tricks to guide me. So far I have Fast Cornice and Smartparts from the ObjectsOnline site.. I tried Door and Window Builders but found it extremely hard to use (a simple double hung was hard to arrive at) and didn't keep it as I needed it for a very small number of special windows i can manage other ways. Learning AC as well as DWB just too much for me.

AC is quite an adventure that has it's potholes but in the end I am convinced it will payoff.. The other option to keep drawing lines and rechecking to no end no longer thrilled me...

Re: Corner Trim on Wood Siding - Possible?

Karl Ottenstein — Wed, 18 Feb 2004 00:59:36 GMT

Archimac wrote:
Great info Karl!

At least I know there is a possible way to do it. Do you know where I can find good tutorials on traditional architecture (residential) using Archicad. Or maybe good add-ons etc.? I am currently playing with the demo which is a simple building but far from reality. I would want to know that Archicad can do all these things before I bought it for sure.

Glad I could help. If I understand what you're asking, no, I don't know of any good tutorials for doing residential architecture per se in AC. IMHO it is simply a matter of knowing how to build (and design). In ArchiCAD, you model the way the structure is to be built and the drawings (generally) take care of themselves. The part one needs to learn is how to set up office standards (layer combinations, materials, fills, etc.) and to use the tools effectively ... which includes realizing that no tool is only for what its name implies but rather for the type of geometry it generates, with the exception of the wall tool since walls are the only objects into which one can place windows and doors. OK roofs are the only objects into which one can place skylights. But, for example, the roof tool would be used to draw a sloped ramp or driveway as well.

There is much that you cannot experience with the crippled demo version of AC since copy/paste and save is required for so many features.

If your reseller has not spent any time with you, it would be good to give him or her a call for a little one on one.

Karl

Re: Corner Trim on Wood Siding - Possible?

Karl Ottenstein — Wed, 18 Feb 2004 01:04:06 GMT

Rashid wrote:
I am 2 months into AC and.. wonder if there is a way to weed out library items i absolutely will never use...

Absolutely. Open the 8.1 library PLA and choose the option to save it into a folder on your disk. Close AC.

Browse to the unpacked library folder and weed away to your heart's content, or reorgnize the content completely according to some office standar. You can now either load THAT trimmed down folder as your standard library, or you can pack it back up into a PLA that will load a little faster than the unpacked objects.

Karl

Re: Corner Trim on Wood Siding - Possible?

Rick Thompson — Wed, 18 Feb 2004 15:04:13 GMT

One other thing in addition to Karls comments that I find helpful is to think through the line thickness displayed in elevation. I assign a thicker line to the corner boards than is assigned to the siding. This helps the elevations look right without as mush fussing. You can add "L" shaped corner boards with pre-set heights and place 4 (different orentations) on your residential templates, then you can drag them into place and the whole procedure is quick and painless. I pre-set the height to bump up to the fascia board, which it also a little wall. Both these I define as a "composite", even thought they are simple walls. This gives them names for referencing and defined thicknesses. These are easily assigned to a property object for material list calculations.

Re: Corner Trim on Wood Siding - Possible?

Djordje — Wed, 18 Feb 2004 17:50:29 GMT

Archimac wrote:
Also, what about brick quoins a the corners.

Used to be there in the standard library ... id not need it for two years or so, so did not check recently.

Re: Corner Trim on Wood Siding - Possible?

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Feb 2004 18:16:46 GMT

Thanks Karl... I have another question...

I have a 2 story wall, floor joists in line with brick veneer stud walls as they should.. In 3d there is a missing belt of brick along the floor system... Do I have to add this veneer manually against the floor edge or incorrectly put my joists on the brick veneer??

Thanks

Re: Corner Trim on Wood Siding - Possible?

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Feb 2004 18:38:05 GMT

I'm not sure I understand from your description (a picture would help). Are you referring to a missing mortar joint at the horizontal seam between two elements? If so, I believe this is a bug in the 3D hatching (also elevations). The choices are: draw the line(s) in 2D, adjust the fill origin(s) in 3D, or slightly change the elements heights. Of these the first seems (unfortunately) to be the least problematic. I suppose one other solution could be to change the brick coursing by some minute amount (small enough so it doesn't accumulate to a noticeable degree over the height of the structure).

Re: Corner Trim on Wood Siding - Possible?

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Feb 2004 19:18:24 GMT

Matthew,

Actually the whole band that should be against the sides of the joists.. my vendor says to just draw the slab to the brick edge and set the side textures ti brick.. Then I would have to "fix" the section in 2d...

I think I will try to draw it properly.. add the veneer to the slab with a wall.

Re: Corner Trim on Wood Siding - Possible?

Karl Ottenstein — Wed, 18 Feb 2004 19:18:38 GMT

Rick wrote:
One other thing in ...I find helpful is to think through the line thickness displayed in elevation. I assign a thicker line to the corner boards than is assigned to the siding. This helps the elevations look right without as mush fussing. You can add "L" shaped corner boards with pre-set heights and place 4 (different orentations) on your residential templates, then you can drag them into place and the whole procedure is quick and painless. I pre-set the height to bump up to the fascia board, which it also a little wall. Both these I define as a "composite", even thought they are simple walls. This gives them names for referencing and defined thicknesses. These are easily assigned to a property object for material list calculations.

Excellent, Rick. 🙂

Re: Corner Trim on Wood Siding - Possible?

Karl Ottenstein — Wed, 18 Feb 2004 19:29:38 GMT

Rashid wrote:
Actually the whole band that should be against the sides of the joists.. my vendor says to just draw the slab to the brick edge and set the side textures ti brick.. Then I would have to "fix" the section in 2d...

That is one of several ways. What you choose to do depends on what will require the least amount of work overall IMHO. If you only have one or two sections that show the floor/wall intersection, then I'd go with your reseller's tip. When you make the edge of the slab be the same material as the brick veneer walls with the same intersection priority, the fill and material will match in elevation/render and you will not get horizontal lines in section/3d, so the wall will look 'right'. You will have to use the Patch Tool to fix the sections though.

Another way requires that you draw a short (brick) wall all around your slab to fill the gap (well, you'd keep an air/weep space, etc. too as in your composite) - matching how it would be built in reality. I would prefer this method for brick/stone/other-thick-nonstructural veneer that should otherwise show in sections.

Something on the wishlist is for slabs to have edge conditions ... then we would be able to say that the slab has brick of a certain thickness around the edge and avoid both of the above.

HTH,
Karl

Re: Corner Trim on Wood Siding - Possible?

Rick Thompson — Wed, 18 Feb 2004 19:29:58 GMT

Rashid wrote:
Matthew,

Actually the whole band that should be against the sides of the joists.. my vendor says to just draw the slab to the brick edge and set the side textures ti brick.. Then I would have to "fix" the section in 2d...

I would recommend making a copy of your wall composite, assuming it is accurately reflecting the true composition. Remove everything from the studs in. Renane it something like brick strip (I also have one for siding). Place it on the perimeter of the floor slab and it will read corectly in 3d and in building sections. You will need to place it on it's own layer (exterior misc), not the wall layer as it will go through the windows and doors. I keep 2 main quickviews, one "work" and one "print". Turn the "exterior misc" layer on for "work" and off for "print". I have been doing this for years and it solves the problem. A long term wish is to be able to apply a composite to the side of a slab.

Re: Corner Trim on Wood Siding - Possible?

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Feb 2004 20:15:31 GMT

Karl and Rick,

That is exactly what I did.. draw a short wall for the brick.. I just don't like "faking" things.. and yes it did need it's own layer as selection became "interesting".. Walls have tons of uses it seems..

Any ideas of why all the corners trim properly except these 2?? driving me NUTS.. I drew it clockwise with the reference line on the inside..

Thanks!

Re: Corner Trim on Wood Siding - Possible?

Karl Ottenstein — Wed, 18 Feb 2004 21:05:54 GMT

Rashid wrote:
Any ideas of why all the corners trim properly except these 2?? driving me NUTS.. I drew it clockwise with the reference line on the inside.. !

In three cases, the stub walls are cleaning up to another (invisible) wall. Make sure that the intersection priority number for the layer that you put this veneer into is unique relative to all other wall objects in the layer combinations that you will display this in.

In the case where the walls meet and don't clean to themselves or something else (far right gap), I'm guessing that they don't really touch properly.

Karl

Re: Corner Trim on Wood Siding - Possible?

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Feb 2004 22:25:50 GMT

re slabs and composite walls a couple of posts back

surely the slab (joists) should be drawn to the outside face of the studs and the composite wall top be at height of floor over. seo the slab from the wall if necessary for sections. this is is how it would be built n'est ce pas?

or am i not quite getting the drift javascript:emoticon(':(')

Re: Corner Trim on Wood Siding - Possible?

Karl Ottenstein — Wed, 18 Feb 2004 23:11:54 GMT

bill wrote:
surely the slab (joists) should be drawn to the outside face of the studs and the composite wall top be at height of floor over. seo the slab from the wall if necessary for sections. this is is how it would be built n'est ce pas?

Duh. Yup. Makes sense to me if the seo result in section looks right. Thanks, Bill. (This does remind me of someone else's wish on the wishlist for controllable heights for the skins of a composite, avoiding the seo.)

Karl

Re: Corner Trim on Wood Siding - Possible?

Anonymous — Thu, 19 Feb 2004 03:22:24 GMT

Karl,

I will remember that one.. changed intersection priority and solved! instant gratification!.. Thank you so much for the help.. Thanks..