topic Re: How to call out duplicate details? Section or Detail too in Modeling

How to call out duplicate details? Section or Detail tool?

tsturm — Tue, 23 May 2023 13:39:40 GMT

hello to all.

Can anyone recommend the best process for calling out detail locations on a roof plan where the same detail is being referenced to on a detail sheet?

Same problem with wall sections on a long building. I want to draw and detail only one of the wall sections. I, however, want AC and PM to auto track that the same detail has several references pointing to it.

I have a building which has the same exterior wall construction on the opposing ends of the building. I want so reference each end of the building using the Section Tool. But I do not want to detail both wall sections. I only want to have the one wall section in Plotmaker.

Has anyone figured out a way to get the two reference cuts to autoupdate for the one drawing?

I have the same sort of problem with roof details.

RNH
TAL

Re: How to call out duplicate details? Section or Detail too

Link — Fri, 19 Nov 2004 17:23:55 GMT

The detail tool allows you to link any marker with another detail. If you have two markers showing the same detail, then simply link them to the same detail!

Look for the 'Link this Marker to an available Detail Drawing' radio button in your Detail Settings dialog.

I hope that helps. We still can't link a section to a detail, or create a detail that cuts a section, which I think would solve every problem out there.
That and having the ability to create a detail within a detail and have both updateable.

Cheers,
Link.

Re: How to call out duplicate details? Section or Detail too

tsturm — Fri, 19 Nov 2004 19:14:18 GMT

Hey Link

Thanks for the response. Can you link to details outside of the file the detail link is referenced from? Say to a DWG from a manufacturer?

Can I link a detail to a section cut? I am sure that I can make a call out tag that looks like a section tag so that is not a question.

Should I copy the contents of a section into a detail and then finish it off there and then treat it as a wall section or such?

Also I have tried to use the detail tool. I seem to have gotten stuck on the same bubble. I cannot resize the bubble or start a new detail. Perhaps quiting the file and opening it up again will have cleared things up. Did I do something wrong?

Re: How to call out duplicate details? Section or Detail too

tsturm — Fri, 19 Nov 2004 20:49:40 GMT

Additionally I have noticed that when I create a detail window that I am n longer able to change the name of the detail.

Right now I am stuck with 10 roof vent pipe details, when in fact I only have one.

How do I go about changing the names without deleting the detail?

Re: How to call out duplicate details? Section or Detail too

Link — Fri, 19 Nov 2004 21:18:03 GMT

Hey Link

Thanks for the response. Can you link to details outside of the file the detail link is referenced from? Say to a DWG from a manufacturer?

Nope - you'll need to bring the DWG into the project. And since you can't XREF into a detail (or S/E) window, you'll need to bring it into your plan window and cut & paste it into your detail window.

Can I link a detail to a section cut? I am sure that I can make a call out tag that looks like a section tag so that is not a question. Should I copy the contents of a section into a detail and then finish it off there and then treat it as a wall section or such?

Unfortunatlely not - that's what I was alluding to in my original response. I don't know if copying the contents of your section into your detail would be the best solution. Firstly it'll be a nuisance to get your 3D content in, and secondly it you could probably solve your problem with a simple marker on the floor plan - even if the marker was just 2D elements. Depends on your needs. Some people like to skin a cat by methodically peeling from the head back, others like to tear it vigorously from the rear. I'm sure you get my point.

Also I have tried to use the detail tool. I seem to have gotten stuck on the same bubble. I cannot resize the bubble or start a new detail. Perhaps quiting the file and opening it up again will have cleared things up. Did I do something wrong?

Sure you can - firstly turn detail boundaries on in Display Options. Don't worry - they won't print. Secondly set your detail's parameters so that the 'Working Mode' is set to 'Follow Clipping Polygon'. Thirdly, select the detail, and with the Detail tool active, click on the edge of the boundary. You can edit it like any other ArchiCAD polygon.

Keep in mind that you are editing the boundary of the detail (not the marker) this is what is shown in the detail window. If you have opened the detail window already, you will need to right click on it in the Navigator and choose 'Rebuild from Source View'. This is where you can rename and delete empty details too.

Hope that helps.

Cheers,
Link.

Re: How to call out duplicate details? Section or Detail too

Anonymous — Fri, 19 Nov 2004 21:36:49 GMT

The detail tool is not very intuitive. To delete or rename a detail open the view editor and right click on the detail name in the left column. As far as I know you cannot link a detail to a section window. I believe this is in the wishlist. Also in placing a detail check the info window; there are 4 different ways of placing a detail marker. the first with just a plus sign does not place a boundary, just a marker. The others work like the fill tool in placing a detail boundary. Also watch the tool... it likes to default to link to an existing detail, fine if that's what you wanted, but if you were looking to place a new detail..... I have not found a way to change a linked detail to a new detail window.

Re: How to call out duplicate details? Section or Detail too

Anonymous — Fri, 19 Nov 2004 22:55:37 GMT

millard said

"... you cannot link a detail to a section window"

i could be misunderstanding what you're saying but this certainly works fine for me

bill

Re: How to call out duplicate details? Section or Detail too

Link — Fri, 19 Nov 2004 23:23:31 GMT

Bill - I'm sure you must be mistaken! But I'd LOVE to be proven wrong! Please explain what you are doing!

Cheers,
Link.

Re: How to call out duplicate details? Section or Detail too

Karl Ottenstein — Sat, 20 Nov 2004 00:26:27 GMT

Link wrote:
Sure you can - firstly turn detail boundaries on in Display Options. Don't worry - they won't print. Secondly set your detail's parameters so that the 'Working Mode' is set to 'Follow Clipping Polygon'. Thirdly, select the detail, and with the Detail tool active, click on the edge of the boundary. You can edit it like any other ArchiCAD polygon.

Actually, no need to have the Detail tool active in 9.0 ... pet palette allows all with any tool, even arrow. 😉

Karl

Re: How to call out duplicate details? Section or Detail too

Karl Ottenstein — Sat, 20 Nov 2004 00:45:56 GMT

Link wrote:
Thanks for the response. Can you link to details outside of the file the detail link is referenced from? Say to a DWG from a manufacturer?
Nope - you'll need to bring the DWG into the project. And since you can't XREF into a detail (or S/E) window, you'll need to bring it into your plan window and cut & paste it into your detail window.

Would the following work as a trick/workaround? (Error prone, of course, but it would keep the dwg's external and thus hotlinked to the LBK...which has its own advantages.)

Suppose you create an empty detail for each DWG detail to be placed in PM. This would serve as a placeholder be used with a detail cloud and marker to (1) show the proper sheet reference in plan or section (unfortunately not inside another detail) via autotext update, and (2) optionally to show an alternative auto-title in PM.

In PM, place the (linked) empty, placeholder details in the drawing grid in the same location as you will place the (linked) DWG. Thus, if you are using grid-assigned numbering, the proper detail number (and page number) will flow back to the detail markers (all of them) in your project file.

Workarounds are just that, and this one has the potential of making it awkward to rearrange drawings on a layout - the solution there is to use Mark Burginger's tip from 8.0 and to select the drawings by right-mousing them in Navigator (select and zoom) rather than trying to select them visually in the layout ... especially since the placeholder detail is empty ... hotspots only. There is the potential for serious errors if you forget and drag the DWG and don't drag the placeholder ... then your references will be to the wrong details! For this reason, having the placeholder generate the autotitle seems the best bet, then you can at least see if the name of the detail matches the detail.

Have not tried this myself ... just an idea! 😉

Karl "workarounds are us"

Re: How to call out duplicate details? Section or Detail too

tsturm — Mon, 22 Nov 2004 14:03:52 GMT

Karl

your idea about using empty detail boxes as place holders has crossed my mind. however PM does not really like truly empty files. They never come in the correct size and such. I would recommend at least putting a box or title bar in the detail window in AC. Then when the detail file comes into PM there is something in the file for PM to place. from there you can use PM's auto title feature if you like.

You idea has some good possiblities given the long and losing process that LINK suggested. LINK did provide the way to get it done. It is not a nice process. but one. Your process is a very good alternative providing you want to keep track of the different files and the locations they need to go on the sheet.

Your process can be difficult to track if the user is not careful to shut off the auto titling of each file placed on the sheet. As the overlapping details and their titles could cause quite a mess on the sheet.

What I am getting out of the whole conversation is you can link multiple references to the same detail without much hassle. You cannot link multiple references to the same wall section. The only way to solve this would be to use a 2d symbol to call out other locations of the same wall section. This process though lacks the use of AC and PM auto tracking.

Does anyone have a recommendation on a process to call out similar or duplicate wall sections and also have these locations track the original wall section?

Re: How to call out duplicate details? Section or Detail too

Link — Mon, 22 Nov 2004 18:14:35 GMT

tsturm said:

You idea has some good possiblities given the long and losing process that LINK suggested.

OUCH!! Easy there big fella, just trying to help. Wowsa!

Karl's workaround is probably a better one, but as he mentioned they are just that - workarounds, and both have their problems. Both are similar it just depends whether you want to manage your problems within ArchiCAD or PlotMaker.

Karl said:

There is the potential for serious errors if you forget and drag the DWG and don't drag the placeholder ... then your references will be to the wrong details!

Karl, you should be able to group these together to overcome this problem. Good idea all 'round mate.

Anyway, the point is that we need the detail tool to be more flexible. Here is an excerpt from the document I provided and discussed with the ArchiCAD Design Team when I met with them in Budapest a few months ago:

"...We need a detail that cuts a section. Many architects need to link a detail to a wall section. Maybe we have a wall section ...[]... in plan and a detail bubble on another section and both are linkable to the same resulting view..."

GS is aware of the problem and I'm sure they're giving it their due consideration!

Cheers,
Link.

Re: How to call out duplicate details? Section or Detail too

Karl Ottenstein — Mon, 22 Nov 2004 18:17:56 GMT

tsturm wrote:
however PM does not really like truly empty files. They never come in the correct size and such. I would recommend at least putting a box or title bar in the detail window in AC.

That's good to know, since I didn't try my idea out. But, I think that two hotspots (representing opposite corners on a diagonal) might be good enough, since then there is no worry about printing a rectangle/etc.

Thanks for your careful and useful analysis of these (unfortunate) workarounds.

I don't see a solution to the section issue (linking duplicate markers to a single wall section) ... which is quite serious. I'm looking forward to reading anyone's ideas here!

Karl

Re: How to call out duplicate details? Section or Detail too

tsturm — Mon, 22 Nov 2004 22:05:01 GMT

Sorry there LINK. I was trying to refer to the losing of the linking to the source file (dwg) and the time it would take some one to go through all the steps.

You were right on the money with a way to get the task completed. I appreciate the help that it was.

I will now crawl into the small area under my desk and cry for a while.

karl

about putting the information from a wall section into a detail box could do the tracking I am looking for. you can take the contents of a section window and copy them. doing so makes everything into lines and fills.

then you can link lots of detail markers to the window. I hear it now. You lose the auto update feature. Yes you do, but do you really use the wall section straight from the model anyways? I often take the info from the wall section. put it on a layer for underlay. then delete what I do not need and use the rest while drawing in the extras that are not produced from the wall section like brick and studs. if the model were to change the underlay info can be updated or changed as necessary.

Now GS, you have us hooked on the use of this detail tool, it seems time to let us run wild with it. We really need to have details link from within details. How else are we going to work from the BIG PICTURE to the smallest mitre.

thank you Karl and LINK for the comments and alternate views on this issue.

If anything further comes to mind, toss it out there.