topic How to survive in an AutoCAD environnement ? in Modeling

How to survive in an AutoCAD environnement ?

Anonymous — Tue, 23 Nov 2004 14:43:07 GMT

I've been using ArchiCAD since 6.5 after having used AutoCAD 14 & 2000... I just got a new job in a big organization (more than 800 workers) where AutoCAD 2004 is massively used.

Is there any hints, tips, etc. that would help me keep using ArchiCAD in this environnement ?

Re: How to survive in an AutoCAD environnement ?

Petros Ioannou — Tue, 23 Nov 2004 16:41:29 GMT

Get your copy of AC installed in your workstation!
If the production of the company requires Acad then use it , having always ArchiCAD running on the background.
watch the scenario:
step 1: When things get really hard, time is little and everyone thinks you cannot deliver on time : ALT+TAB= ArchiCAD
step 2:you will have the first looks and questions: "how did you do that?"
" Oh, isn't ArchiCAD just for interior designers?" etc.
step 3 : small demonstration of the way you model it
step 4 : partner at the next workstation having a self head injury , thinking of all these years he lost learning how to draw lines using Autocad
step 5 : it spreads like a virus in the office
step 6: they try to make you a cad manager to setup an ArchiCAD environment
step 7: you refuse because you are an architect and not a cad manager

and life goes on...

Petros

Re: How to survive in an AutoCAD environnement ?

Anonymous — Tue, 23 Nov 2004 16:57:53 GMT

If 800 use AutoCAD and one uses ArchiCAD, there is 1 chance in 800 you could be wrong

Re: How to survive in an AutoCAD environnement ?

Anonymous — Wed, 24 Nov 2004 04:09:52 GMT

Make yourself indispensable by using Archicad to it's full potential - I've always worked in a predominately AC environment and got all the upfront pointy work that the others can't (do as well, or more to the point as quickly). Even if you're not the design architect the architect will enjoy the fast feedback... the 2Ds can be stripped off your model for documentation by the AC guys(work on your templates, line weights etc). Once they see the benefits you may head up an archicad 'corner' where projects can be Teamworked.
Oh, and you can charge for your licence if you have one... and demand a faster computer now they realise how hot you are..

Most firms will be at least interested in assessing archicad.. if not go somewhere that is. Better an important cog in a smaller machine..

Good Luck

Re: How to survive in an AutoCAD environnement ?

stefan — Wed, 24 Nov 2004 08:59:09 GMT

Is it at least ADT or just plain vanilla AutoCAD?

Good luck, it will be tough...

Re: How to survive in an AutoCAD environnement ?

Djordje — Wed, 24 Nov 2004 17:46:01 GMT

Krippahl wrote:
If 800 use AutoCAD and one uses ArchiCAD, there is 1 chance in 800 you could be wrong

Aw c'mon, two million people can't be wrong ... 😉

Re: How to survive in an AutoCAD environnement ?

Anonymous — Thu, 25 Nov 2004 12:56:39 GMT

A major advantage to being an ArchiCAD user among AutoCAD operators is that they get stuck with all the dreary detail and production work.

I ran a project where there were not enough ArchiCAD people available so we had to use AutoCAD drafters to finish up the drawings. This meant that the two other ArchiCAD users and I got to focus on the modeling (and floor plans) and just dumped all the elevations, sections, and details on the other guys.

It was nowhere near as productive as teamworking ArchiCAD, but it was still way better than trying to crank the whole thing out in plain AutoCAD.

A word of caution though. Unless you find an unusual level of interest, do not push the use of ArchiCAD in this environment. ACAD users are likely to find it threatening as a concept (particularly CAD managers) and will resist and criticize.

It would be best to look for an opportunity to use ArchiCAD to help out in the right circumstances. The best situation might be where a quick model is needed for presentation purposes. After impressing everyone with it's speed and quality as a modeler, you give them the base plans, elevations and sections for completion in AutoCAD. But keep in mind that this could still be alarming to some who may see their position threatened.

Re: How to survive in an AutoCAD environnement ?

Anonymous — Thu, 25 Nov 2004 15:21:21 GMT

1:800? Not fair!

I've succeded to do this in a 2:7 situation and it was VERY difficult!

Googd luck anyway! It will be interesting to see the results in a 2-3 months period

Re: How to survive in an AutoCAD environnement ?

Anonymous — Thu, 25 Nov 2004 15:28:43 GMT

You know about the battle at Thermopily? 300 Spartan soldiers tried to stop the Persian army of several thousand.

They all died ...

Re: How to survive in an AutoCAD environnement ?

Karl Ottenstein — Thu, 25 Nov 2004 17:34:18 GMT

kliment wrote:
1:800? Not fair!

Ah, but we're talking about Geoffroy! In spite of his modesty, always one of the top beta testers and ArchiCAD experts ... and so I have faith that he will soon have a new 'modeling' department forming around him as more and more people see what he can do that they cannot. Or, at least I hope so! Good luck with the situation, Geoffroy!

Karl

Re: How to survive in an AutoCAD environnement ?

Anonymous — Thu, 25 Nov 2004 17:38:21 GMT

Matthew wrote:
A word of caution though. Unless you find an unusual level of interest, do not push the use of ArchiCAD in this environment. ACAD users are likely to find it threatening as a concept (particularly CAD managers) and will resist and criticize.

What I have found out that really really irks them AutoCAD users, the one thing they just can not forgive us, is the FUN WE HAVE!
This is something you just can't let them notice.
You should work hunched over your station, mumbling "oh deary deary me..." and slapping your display around every 15 minutes.
I

Re: How to survive in an AutoCAD environnement ?

TomWaltz — Thu, 25 Nov 2004 22:04:56 GMT

You know about the battle at Thermopily? 300 Spartan soldiers tried to stop the Persian army of several thousand.

They all died ...

But if memory serves.... didn't the Spartans inflict almost 100:1 casualties before they died?

Re: How to survive in an AutoCAD environnement ?

stefan — Fri, 26 Nov 2004 07:36:48 GMT

And some real hints:

Get to grips with AutoCAD yourself, at least to the level that you can tweak your DWG-conversion settings if you still want to use ArchiCAD in the workflow.
AutoCAD 2004/2005 is not that much different then AutoCAD 12 but still... there are a lot of features.
Do they use AutoCAD with the C3A-extensions (or Tase)? Because then they have a workflow and set of templates to which you have to obey, even if you make it in ArchiCAD.

Do lot's and lot's of 3D. That always impresses people, certainly those that can't do it, but also those that do it the hard way in AutoCAD: with inflexible solids all the way, from 2D-drawings. If they use ADT, they understand what you are doing, so it is harder to blow them away.

If you're interested in learning new software (I know I would be) then inform them about Revit and the AutoCAD/Revit-series.

Or focus on the 3D-building and pass on the sections to the drafters.

Well, you didn't give much specifics: do you still need to draw? Or is it more in a project-engineering position that you are working now?

The ArchiCAD 9 DWG/DXF translators are very usable, although I advise you to prepare real templates in AutoCAD, with layers, pen colors etc... so the ArchiCAD translator can be finetuned to them.

Re: How to survive in an AutoCAD environnement ?

Anonymous — Mon, 29 Nov 2004 14:53:09 GMT

Thanks for all the tips about using ArchiCAD in this environnement. I guess I'll have to take some time to carefully set-up my template to integrate the AutoCAD standards. The trouble is they use about 300 layers where everyhting is completely dissociated. I don't guess ArchiCAD will be able to export elements from a window to 3 or 4 different layers for exemple... I'll get back to you when I'll be a little bit more far in this process...

Re: How to survive in an AutoCAD environnement ?

Anonymous — Mon, 29 Nov 2004 14:59:11 GMT

stefan wrote:
Do they use AutoCAD with the C3A-extensions (or Tase)? Because then they have a workflow and set of templates to which you have to obey, even if you make it in ArchiCAD.

Yes, they use this system, but it's not very well documented, so until now I don't really know to what I've to conform...

stefan wrote:
Do lot's and lot's of 3D. That always impresses people, certainly those that can't do it, but also those that do it the hard way in AutoCAD: with inflexible solids all the way, from 2D-drawings. If they use ADT, they understand what you are doing, so it is harder to blow them away.

They begin to use it, but I'm still wondering why they're not introducing revit instead ? I guess using ADT allow the drafters to use AutoCAD as they've always used it before !

stefan wrote:
If you're interested in learning new software (I know I would be) then inform them about Revit and the AutoCAD/Revit-series.

Or focus on the 3D-building and pass on the sections to the drafters.

stefan wrote:
Well, you didn't give much specifics: do you still need to draw? Or is it more in a project-engineering position that you are working now?

I'll need to draw at early stage but drafters will do the 2D / detail work...

stefan wrote:
The ArchiCAD 9 DWG/DXF translators are very usable, although I advise you to prepare real templates in AutoCAD, with layers, pen colors etc... so the ArchiCAD translator can be finetuned to them.

Can you explain a bit ?

Re: How to survive in an AutoCAD environnement ?

Eduardo Rolon — Mon, 29 Nov 2004 17:19:51 GMT

Check this thread

http://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?p=25158&highlight=autocad#25158

Re: How to survive in an AutoCAD environnement ?

Anonymous — Wed, 09 Feb 2005 22:54:51 GMT

With a ratio of 800 to 1 you are in the driving seat.

I work with autocad alongside my own licenced version of archicad. It works for me and I've had no conflicts with the more passionate acad types. In fact quite the contrary.
With a strict company layering regime which nobody seems to adhere to, I am in their good books due to the fact that I only ever had to set up the company layering system in archicad once and now all my dwg output is "correctly" layered.

Sketches!
I modeled up some buildings which had been designed and developed (mainly in plan) and used the sketch rendering setting to create elevations and a couple of perspectives which look like hand-drawn pencil sketches. I prepared a plotmaker sheet to replicate the cad elevation sheet which had already been prepared with acad.
As soon as the directors saw my 'pencil elevations' they asked "how long will it take to model the whole site?" I had already done so. "A couple of days" I replied thinking I could use the time to tidy my materials and customize my composites (more tea vicar?). "If we asked Leeds (head office) to do that we wouldn't get it back for months" was their astonished response.

Our Leeds office use acad & Viz to produce 'visuals'. I feel for them, I really do!

Re: How to survive in an AutoCAD environnement ?

Petros Ioannou — Thu, 10 Feb 2005 06:55:47 GMT

So Geoffroy, it's been 2 months (maybe more?) in your new work environment. How are things going?

Petros

Re: How to survive in an AutoCAD environnement ?

Ben Odonnell — Thu, 10 Feb 2005 07:43:10 GMT

Geoffroy wrote:
I don't guess ArchiCAD will be able to export elements from a window to 3 or 4 different layers for exemple... I'll get back to you when I'll be a little bit more far in this process...

Geoffroy,
How have you gone with this problem?
I can give you a little tip, if you haven't already found it your self.
In ArchiCAD 7 we had a really nice function in the DXF-DWG config. On e could combine ArchiCAD/Plotmaker layers with the pen--->layer conversion. For same strange reason it was over looked and disappeared from ArchiCAD 8/8.1. But now it's back in ArchiCAD 9.

So what you can do now is split up every window/door and export it to was many different layers you like, depending on how many different elements can have their pen colour changed in the window object of course.

So what you can do is take away any thing under the "Create custom layers for" your windows and doors.
What you can then do is convert your pens that you have used on your windows and doors and place them on what ever layer you like.

E.G Every thing drawn with Pen 200 goes onto AutoCAD layer "Outer Windows"

Ect ect.

HTH.
Cheers.
Ben

Re: How to survive in an AutoCAD environnement ?

Anonymous — Fri, 18 Feb 2005 14:58:39 GMT

Petros wrote:
So Geoffroy, it's been 2 months (maybe more?) in your new work environment. How are things going?

Haaa, excellent question.

As we received a new version of Architectural Desktop 2005, I've taken a 4 days courses. I was getting convinced that there were many interesting features until the 4th day : we started focusing on workflow and for me ADT is nearly unusable (lack of ergonomy, much too complex, etc).

I've meanwhile been asked to join the AutoCAD/Architectural Desktop Internal User Group and I'll try to propose the use of ArchiCAD for one project I'll have to do in the next fex month. I'll have to teach a draftman to use the software (which will take approximately 3 hours 😉 ) and draw the project with him... The problem is that this project consist of remodeling of 4 quite extended historical buildings in Bruxelles : a difficult project for a "test" 😉, but this might be a good challenge for ArchiCAD...

The last question at the present time : will they let me use ArchiCAD (as I have my own key, it won't even be a problem of licence cost).