topic Re: Teamwork question...another one in Modeling

Teamwork question...another one

Tom Krowka — Fri, 21 Oct 2005 14:01:30 GMT

I've made a draft copy of the .plp file. Now it appears the only member who can acess the plp file is the administrator until the draft copy send changes back to the plp copy. Only one person was signed into the plp file, as team leader, who is the same person who made the draft copy.

I'd like to be able to send two draft copies home with the staff, but continue working on some parts of the plp file while they are out. Then incoporate both draft copies into the plp file. It does not seem this is going to work.

Hopefully I'm doing something wrong here and this idea will work.

Re: Teamwork question...another one

Aaron Bourgoin — Fri, 21 Oct 2005 14:44:39 GMT

When working with Drafts, NEVER, EVER, EVER sign out of the project. This is counterintuitive, but after you've created the draft file you need to end your ArchiCAD session without signing out of the project. If you do, you've orphaned your draft and can't send it back to the PLP.

Re: Teamwork question...another one

Tom Krowka — Fri, 21 Oct 2005 16:19:11 GMT

If I create two draft files, then send them home with two different staff over the weekend, does that mean I have to leave the .plp file open all that time? That can't be right. Surely I must be able to close (save) the plp file somehow, then reopen it on Monday, then receive changes from the draft copies.

If I do work on the .plp file at the office during the weekend, how do I save that information and update the existing .plp file?

Re: Teamwork question...another one

Anonymous — Fri, 21 Oct 2005 17:01:11 GMT

Tom wrote:
If I create two draft files, then send them home with two different staff over the weekend, does that mean I have to leave the .plp file open all that time? That can't be right. Surely I must be able to close (save) the plp file somehow, then reopen it on Monday, then receive changes from the draft copies.

If I do work on the .plp file at the office during the weekend, how do I save that information and update the existing .plp file?

You can create two draft files, but they must have different areas, layers, sections or details in each draft. You actually cannot open an PLP file, you can only sign in.

Re: Teamwork question...another one

TomWaltz — Fri, 21 Oct 2005 17:08:34 GMT

Tom wrote:
If I create two draft files, then send them home with two different staff over the weekend, does that mean I have to leave the .plp file open all that time? That can't be right. Surely I must be able to close (save) the plp file somehow, then reopen it on Monday, then receive changes from the draft copies.

If I do work on the .plp file at the office during the weekend, how do I save that information and update the existing .plp file?

When a person signs in to a PLP, they take a part of it for themselves. If that person saves, they save a draft PLC, not a PLP. The PLP is never really open. If you have not saved, you are technically working in "untitlled.plc". Only the "Send & Recieve" command actually affects the PLP file.

As many people as you want can have PLCs open, each with a different part of the building. They can stay open over night. They can be removed from the office on lap tops.

Until a person "Sends and Receives," no one else can see what they have done. Until a person "Signs out", no one else can claim the layers, sections, or details that person has claimed.

Re: Teamwork question...another one

Tom Krowka — Fri, 21 Oct 2005 17:25:16 GMT

I think I'm starting to get the picture. One more question, if you please. If the plp is never really open, why am I able to do work on it? I'm signed in as the team leader, and am making changes to the plp. How do I incorporate those changes? By executing the send and recieve changes command? Do I then sign out, which closes the plp file?

I think I'm close to understanding the big picture. I've got a project due on Monday, and the teamwork thing is the only way I'm going to be able to get it done. Unless I screw something up with teamwork, which can and probably will happen (based on my previous experience with computers in general)

Re: Teamwork question...another one

Anonymous — Fri, 21 Oct 2005 17:50:35 GMT

Do I then sign out, which closes the plp file?

Stop thinking about opening and closing the plp file. To make your changes stick, send and receive, as you said. Following that, by signing out you are giving up your privileges and workspace defined when you signed in...another person is free to sign in and work in that area now.

When you sign in you are establishing a scope for your work, area and privileges. Its the .plp's job to keep track of that until you sign out. The sign-in effort ensures a) your ongoing work can be 'returned' to the .plp with a send-and-receive operation, and b) that noone else can edit things you think you are working on.

Re: Teamwork question...another one

TomWaltz — Fri, 21 Oct 2005 18:47:15 GMT

Tom wrote:
I think I'm starting to get the picture. One more question, if you please. If the plp is never really open, why am I able to do work on it? I'm signed in as the team leader, and am making changes to the plp. How do I incorporate those changes? By executing the send and recieve changes command? Do I then sign out, which closes the plp file?

I think I'm close to understanding the big picture. I've got a project due on Monday, and the teamwork thing is the only way I'm going to be able to get it done. Unless I screw something up with teamwork, which can and probably will happen (based on my previous experience with computers in general)

The only time a PLP file is actually changed is when you Send & Receive.

When you Sign In, you claim elements of your project to work on, and no one else can edit those elements. When you Sign Out, the elements you have claimed for your work space are released for other people to work on. Again, the PLP is not actually "open" or "closed", just different elements are available for someone to work on.

The PLP itself is kind of the "master project." Archicad only ever "opens" or "closes" the file when someone has the Sign-in window open, or is in the middle of a Send & Receive. That is why only one person at a time can be doing any kind of Teamwork-related task.

The thing that confuses a lot of people is that even though you can only EDIT certain elements, you can VIEW the entire project. As a result, it looks like you have the whole project when you actually can only edit the parts you claimed in your Sign In window.

When you sign in, Archicad assigns a "sign in ID" number to you. This number is attached to any PLC files you create. It is important to realize that when you sign out, any PLC files you have floating around that have the sign in ID can no longer be used to "Send & Recieve." They are just outdated backup files.

Re: Teamwork question...another one

Tom Krowka — Fri, 21 Oct 2005 21:06:35 GMT

Getting closer and closer. Hypothetical question..... I have two draft copies, and they both have the same reservations made. Two different people work on them. Now I have to send and recieve to the PLP to update the project.
Draft copy A sends his changes and the plp updates.

Draft B send his changes and the plp udates.

What if both A and B made changes to the same thing, which they could do because their reservations are the same. Would the PLP show the last changes, which would from Draft B? Would that receive overwrite the changes from Draft B?

Now that I write it all down it seems so. Am I right in the above assumption. It looks like I found my opportunity for the screw up here.

Re: Teamwork question...another one

Anonymous — Fri, 21 Oct 2005 21:55:47 GMT

Tom wrote:
Getting closer and closer. Hypothetical question..... I have two draft copies, and they both have the same reservations made. Two different people work on them. Now I have to send and recieve to the PLP to update the project.
Draft copy A sends his changes and the plp updates.

Draft B send his changes and the plp udates.

What if both A and B made changes to the same thing, which they could do because their reservations are the same. Would the PLP show the last changes, which would from Draft B? Would that receive overwrite the changes from Draft B?

Now that I write it all down it seems so. Am I right in the above assumption. It looks like I found my opportunity for the screw up here.

You would not be able to have two drafts that have the same workspace unless you did a save as.. from your draft file to make a copy. In any event the first send from and receive from Draft A would change that draft's ID number and Draft B would then be invaild and would not be able to send and receive changes. As you said there are opportunities to screw up, but at least they are limited. As long as you keep up with where you save the drafts, and overwrite the old draft (so you do not keep multiples) you will be fine.

Re: Teamwork question...another one

__archiben — Fri, 21 Oct 2005 23:20:38 GMT

Tom wrote:
Getting closer and closer. Hypothetical question..... I have two draft copies, and they both have the same reservations made. Two different people work on them. Now I have to send and recieve to the PLP to update the project.
Draft copy A sends his changes and the plp updates.

Draft B send his changes and the plp udates.

right. stop. before you go any further with this:
i. RTFM
ii. explain just what it is you are trying to achieve because there are two ways of working with teamwork drafts....

firstly, the conventional way as described by the guys above: it allows several members to EACH sign-in to their OWN workspaces to work on DIFFERENT elements within a single PROJECT. i.e. one person can work on the ground floor another the first, or somebody can work on the external envelope of the building whilst another plans the interior. the workspaces are mutually exclusive of each other.
the second way is used to manage project VARIATIONS and must be very carefully planned and implemented: by signing in ONCE and duplicating ('Save As...') the draft file, you can work on several different options of the same thing. and depending on the workspace that you reserve when you sign in, this can be the entire building or just certain aspects of it. BUT: only ONE of these duplicate draft files can be sent back to the PLP file. each of the DRAFTS are mutually exclusive of the others, therefore sending changes from one will invalidate all of the others.

it sounds as though you are wanting to work as described in the first (traditional) sense of teamwork, but have duplicated the files as explained in the second?

imagine the PLP file as simply a storage repository for the project data. nobody works on this data directly, they 'check-out' copies of certain parts of that data. the rest of the information is also brought along for the ride, but is simply contextual: unless it's a part of the checked out data it CANNOT be worked on. if it is this that confuses you, it's possible to 'Show my workspace only' by using the relevant command from the 'Teamwork' menu. this hides all of the information that you do not have access to work on (the stuff that's just along for the ride).

when you have finished working on that checked out data, you take it back to the central storage repository ('send and receive' to the PLP) where the original data is compared - element by element - with the data that you've worked on. anything that you may have changed replaces the data held in the PLP, everything else is remains as is.

HTH and good luck . . .
~/archiben

Re: Teamwork question...another one

Tom Krowka — Fri, 21 Oct 2005 23:20:58 GMT

Actually, what I did with the drafts was create one from the PLP, using save as, then I copied it on to another machine via the network and renamed it. Does that change the ID no.

If I work on B (the second draft) would I be prohibited from sending changes to the PLP?

Otherwise, the way I see it, the best way to do it would be to save two different draft copies from the .PLP. But what if they both have the same reservations. Wouldn't the send/receive issues I asked about in the previous post still be a problem?

Re: Teamwork question...another one

__archiben — Fri, 21 Oct 2005 23:26:08 GMT

Tom wrote:
Actually, what I did with the drafts was create one from the PLP, using save as, then I copied it on to another machine via the network and renamed it. Does that change the ID no.

If I work on B (the second draft) would I be prohibited from sending changes to the PLP?

Otherwise, the way I see it, the best way to do it would be to save two different draft copies from the .PLP. But what if they both have the same reservations. Wouldn't the send/receive issues I asked about in the previous post still be a problem?

NO NO NO!

never OPEN a PLP file: from the teamwork menu, choose "Sign-In" and then navigate to the PLP file. EACH 'PERSON' HAS TO GO THROUGH THE SIGN-IN PROCESS IN ORDER TO OBTAIN A VALID DRAFT

i really think that you should read the teamwork section of the manual before you go any further! you have the potential here to lose and awful lot of work if you don't understand the process . . . and read my post just above your last one. i think we posted at the same time . . .

~/archiben

Re: Teamwork question...another one

Tom Krowka — Fri, 21 Oct 2005 23:33:23 GMT

Also, to speak to Archiben's question....

I'm trying to have two people work on the same project, but each person would have access to the whole project. The draft copies were saved by the team leader, who had access to the whole project as his workspace. We are working on a four story custom house, and there are changes all over all stories and layers.

Each person has his own assignment, but they consist of changes over all stories and layers. Each person is doing his own changes on two different draft copies.

I thought that then each person could update the PLP separately. Now that I've read everyone's posts, I don't think that is going to work.

Maybe time for plan B

How about this question then. I'm not at my computer since it is Friday night and my wife insists I get the he out of the office, so I can't try it out.

Can I cut and paste a section from one drawing to another. I mean the section mark, it's associated view, and 2D drawings added onto the view.
That would make the whole teamwork situation go away,which I'm about ready for.

Thanks to all who have contributed. Learned a lot today.

Re: Teamwork question...another one

Tom Krowka — Fri, 21 Oct 2005 23:38:33 GMT

Archiben:

Actually, I did sign in to the PLP file. Went through the standard procedure to get to that file. Then I save as to get the draft file. I thought that is how it is supposed to work. And I did get that idea from the teamwork section of the manual.

So now I have two draft copies that are being worked on. But I don't think that is the way togo.

See my previous post. Must go and drink heavily now. Will be back on Sat.

Re: Teamwork question...another one

__archiben — Fri, 21 Oct 2005 23:47:51 GMT

Tom wrote:
So now I have two draft copies that are being worked on. But I don't think that is the way togo.

no - for two VALID and mutually exclusive workspaces you need to sign-in TWICE and 'Save As...'

~/archiben

Re: Teamwork question...another one

Aussie John — Sat, 22 Oct 2005 01:38:17 GMT

Let me first say that the workflow for TEAMWORK Sucks, but it is what we have, so refer the following for some more info.

For every draft version to be worked on by separate people, they must be signed in separately, each with their own workspace.
It is not possible for more than one draft to have control over the whole project.

Not to confuse with the above you can COPY as many version of a draft as you like and onto different machines (even different names). BUT …( read this!!!!!!!!)

every time a version is sent back to the PLP file only THAT files information will be used and any previous sends from other copies will be over written.

The only reason to make duplicate versions of the same Sign-in draft is if you are experimenting with different design options. You can go back to which ever version you like as long as they are from the SAME sign-in

DONT do multiple saves from the sign-in to create the duplicates as this will create a new ID - just copy the file.

Also to answer a previous query if you have the PLP file open and you want to "close it down" just click the close button on the window (red button on Mac). and you will stay signed-in without the file staying "Open"

Re: Teamwork question...another one

Tom Krowka — Sat, 22 Oct 2005 12:39:00 GMT

When working with Drafts, NEVER, EVER, EVER sign out of the project. This is counterintuitive, but after you've created the draft file you need to end your ArchiCAD session without signing out of the project. If you do, you've orphaned your draft and can't send it back to the PLP.
_________________

The manual says I can still get the draft back into the plp by doing a FILE>MERGE. Does this work?

Re: Teamwork question...another one

TomWaltz — Sat, 22 Oct 2005 12:56:22 GMT

The manual says I can still get the draft back into the plp by doing a FILE>MERGE. Does this work?

kind of, but not really. A "merge" only copies in the plan/model information. No section, detail, or attributal changes (like layer combination or view set) will be included.

Re: Teamwork question...another one

Tom Krowka — Sat, 22 Oct 2005 13:50:47 GMT

Here's what I did. What did I do wrong.

Created a PLP file from a PLN. Got that part down.
Team Leader has exclusive access.
TL creates draft copy.
Through explorer, copies draft copy and renames one. Now has two different copies of the same thing,different names.
Signs off PLP, closes file, shuts off computer.

Computer on this am.
Sign on to PLP file, only have admin and viewer access.
How do I get Tleader access, or any access that will allow me to send and receive changes from the draft copy
How do I send & receive draft copy changes (from only one of the draft copies)

Will I be able to ever figure this out.
I've read the manual several times, does not really address some of these issues.